When Wolves Remove Their Clothes


When Wolves Remove Their Clothes

A wolf taking off his sheep's clothing

There are many wolves at large today, prowling around with their “sheep’s clothing” draped across their furry shoulders, looking for any unsuspecting prey which they can devour for their own self-serving agendas. One even contacted me today, and tried to deceive me into advertising his alleged “ministry” for him on my websites, using a false confrontation about Kenneth Copeland as his “lure.”

Instead of playing his silly game, however, I decided to write this article and let him undress his true character for the entire world to see.

(Note: This post is rated “R” for “reveal” as I intend to expose a hypocrite herein very sternly, with the intent of trying to warn him of his error, and to secure his salvation. This is in total conformity to Paul’s admonishment in 1 Timothy 5:19-21, which says in part, “Those [elders] who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.” Since this person claims to be a “pastor” then public rebuke for his hypocrisy is certainly in order. So “canine discretion is advised” for all other wolves who may be reading this post.)

Dressed to Kill

Some wolves wear “tailor made” sheep suits which hide everything but their fangs as they salivate over the next meal. In my informed opinion, Kenneth Copeland falls into this category, as he has shown himself to be quite deceptive with his wooly attire.

For example, Copeland will publicly teach on topics such as honor and integrity, or perhaps love and forgiveness, even while simultaneously propagating multimillion-dollar frauds. His hearers are lulled into believing that he and his wolf pack (i.e. family) are “upright” and “holy” and the donations come in as overly-trusting people expect “hundred-fold returns from God” on their “seed.” However, the Copelands don’t live that way themselves. They merely devour the wealth of the unsuspecting victims with their multimillion-dollar incomes and other financial “perks,” paid for by these contributions and the sales of products that teach this unbiblical tripe. In fact, most of the so-called “prosperity preachers” fall into this category (though the more amateurish among their number are not as competent with their deceptions as the truly “professional” wolves are).

Others are not so clever in hiding their true nature from the flock of God. The “cotton ball” covering, with which they have arrayed themselves, provides very little camouflage against detection—if the sheep will merely pay attention. (The guy we will discuss shortly falls into this latter category, in my opinion.)

All of the wolves, however, will occasionally drop all pretense of feigning themselves as sheep, when their own carnivorous nature gets the best of them. To understand how and when that might happen, let us first look at what Jesus said about these deceivers. Herein, we will see what are the two CHIEF characteristics that marks all wolves:

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

(Matthew 7:13-23, NKJV, words of Jesus in red, emphasis added)

The First Characteristic

The first point to note about the above passage about “wolves in sheep’s clothing” is that it is sandwiched between two powerful passages that discuss both true and false “converts” to Christianity.

In the beginning of our citation above, we are told by the Lord that “many” find the “broad way” that leads to Hell and damnation (as heresy is typically more popular among the wicked than is the truth); but those who are willing to take the “narrow way” will find eternal life through Jesus Christ. In the ending of the section we quoted above, Jesus tells us that not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one, and that many of these false converts will be shocked to discover they are unsaved only AFTER damnation comes upon them.

Oh, what a horror! The Savior of the world has told us that many are deceived into believing they are righteous when they are not. Oh, what a terror! Should we not be about our Father’s business and warn such people that their false beliefs are leading them to Hell?

I truly think that stern warnings about their frightful condition is FAR more loving than lying to them by telling them that there is no Hell to fear at all!

Picasso “Theologies”

"Weeping Woman" by Pablo Picasso, 1937

Picasso's "Weeping Woman" looks just like someone you know, does it not? Be forewarned: Rob Bell's "portrait" of "love" is just as perverted from biblical reality as this Picasso is from the features of the woman he "represented" therein. (Click to enlarge)

Of course, this last point flies in the face of popular “broad-way” heresies today. Some have gone so far as to twist so-called “love” teaching into shapes so distorted, so perverted, that their heretical doctrine has lost all reference to true biblical theology. In short, Rob Bell’s “love wins” defecation (a far more appropriate term to use than “teaching”) reflects the agape love described in Scripture about as well as a Picasso painting represents a true “portrait” of his subjects.

Nonetheless, the fact of true and false converts—and the truth that there is a Hell to avoid, even as there is a Heaven to gain—is VERY consistent with other “narrow-way” teachings of Jesus Christ. As the passage above warned, there will be those who are shocked to find themselves damned because they were never truly born again into eternal life.

This class of unsaved false “Christians” have been referred to by preachers throughout history by names such as “false converts,” “false professors,” “pretenders,” “counterfeits,” and even simply “hypocrites.” Jesus, however, used allegorical terms that compared the true Christians with the false. There are the “wheat” but also “tares” (Mat. 13:24-30, 36-43); “good fish” but also “bad fish” (Mat. 13:47-50); “sheep” but also “goats” (Mat. 25:31-46); “wise virgins” but also “foolish” ones (Mat. 25:1-13).

In short, not everyone who claims to be a Christian—or who even thinks that they are a Christian, simply because of their religious observances or profession—is truly born again. As I stated within the very comprehensive explanation of salvation entitled, The Supreme Value of Righteousness:

[Jesus] said clearly [in John chapter 3] that we must be “born again” (i.e. a second birth) in order to enter into the Kingdom of God as genuine children of God. He said that this one is a spiritual birth, in which our spirits are “born again” by the working of Holy Spirit of God Himself. “Spirit gives birth to spirit,” Jesus said. And just as our first birth was dramatic, so is the second birth also—but on the inside of a person, rather than on the outside….being “born again” was not merely a doctrine, a concept, a philosophy, or merely some emotional euphoria. It is an experience. And to be quite honest about it, it is a very dramatic experience to be born of God’s Spirit on the inside. (Bracketed clarifications added.)

So what do we see Jesus saying about wolves? The Lord says that they are “clothed” like sheep, but inwardly they are “ravenous wolves.” In short, they are NOT born again; or at best, have traveled the road of apostasy so long, that they are once again lost and can only expect damnation for eternity:

For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, back-bitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced….

Examine and test and evaluate your own selves to see whether you are holding to your faith and showing the proper fruits of it. Test and prove yourselves [not Christ]. Do you not yourselves realize and know [thoroughly by an ever-increasing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you—unless you are [counterfeits] disapproved on trial and rejected?

(2 Corinthians 12:20-21 NKJV; 13:5, Amplified, emphasis added)

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven….And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

(Excerpt from Matthew 7:13-23, NKJV, words of Jesus in red, emphasis added)

And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

(Matthew 13:36-43, NKJV, words of Jesus in red)

Obviously, the most loving action that any of us can take is to warn such “wolves” that they are literally “playing with fire” (i.e. eternal damnation within the Lake of Fire). Consequently, though it may seem severe to people ignorant of biblical truth, this public rebuke of the wolf who I will shortly identify will be for his eternal good and profit—if he will simply repent, as we have likewise publicly called upon Kenneth Copeland and his family to do.

The Second Characteristic

It is important to note also that another chief characteristic of covert “wolves” is their “ravenous” nature. The Greek word translated for this adjective is harpax, which means literally a “robber or extortioner.” So their appetites drive such unsaved people to array themselves in “sheep’s clothing” in order to deceive other people into complacency, so as to “rob” and “extort” from them all that they can devour.

This is a huge truth that Jesus has made plain to us: “Wolves in sheep’s clothing” are best identified by their “ravenous, robbing, extorting” nature! Their “ravening appetite” tends to be directed toward money, fame, power, and other such carnal lusts.

Doctrine (i.e. teaching) can certainly be a clue to their nature when they use it to plunder their overly-trusting victims. However, that is not the best indication of wolves overall because some are very smooth with their “tailor-made” sheep costumes and deceiving ways (as I noted already above). So using doctrine alone as a guide, one could miss a wolf here and there—or at least fail to properly warn others of the dangers of a particular wolf even if the identification is appropriate, because people’s eyes tend to glaze over when you get into doctrinal points.

Oh, but draw a person’s attention to evidence of fraud, public lies, greed, and other such “tell tale” signs of a true wolf, and you can get their attention! In fact, that is the best way to begin to wear down a person’s misguided trust in these deceivers. Consider what I wrote in response to this dear lady’s question about how to get her Copeland-cult deceived brother free from their clutches:

She wrote:

I have watched for 20+ years my brother sending money to KC. My brother is like brainwashed to send money and he can’t afford it. He is 54 years old and lost his job. He doesn’t seem to recognize that the KCM “prosperity” only goes to K and his wife. How can I break the spell? Any advice is welcomed. KCM is a cult.

I replied (in-part):

…The “Prosperity” error, as Copeland preaches, promises their followers that “God” will give them a “thirty, sixty or hundredfold” return on their “seed” (i.e. offerings). Since your brother is in financial straights, and has been “sowing seed” for 20+ years, I suggest you quiz him along those lines. For example, “How much money do you think you have sent KCM over the years?” (Press him to give an estimate, then do the math.) “Have you received [30X] that amount? How about [60X] that amount? Surely, you have not received [100X] that amount have you?”

The key with ANYBODY involved in ANY cult (e.g. Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Prosperity-cult followers) is that you have to destroy their trust in the cult leaders BEFORE you can then point them to the truth of God’s Word and help them get their thinking clear. So you will have to “corner” your brother on the above point, press him for an estimate for how much he has given through the years, and then press home the fact that their “promises” (which are supposed to be based upon God’s Word, but are a complete misuse thereof in actuality) are NOT WORKING for him. You need to then drive home the following two points:

  • Since the Copelands’ message is NOT working after 20+ years of his attempts to live thereby, COULD IT BE that what they teach is in error and NOT supported by the Bible after all?
  • Since the Bible indicates that “good seed” needs to be sown in “good ground” (see Matthew 13:23 and Mark 4:8) could the alternative explanation for your brother’s lack of manifest “prosperity” be that the Copelands have hidden sin, and that those people are just NOT “good ground” to “sow into” after all?

At least one of these two points above MUST be true, given the 20+ years of evidence concerning your brother’s failure to prosper financially (and both are actually true). So you will need to “hammer” on these points, once you establish the fact that your bother has NOT been “walking in the blessing” as Copeland has promised that he would.

Wolves are easily exposed when you dissect their “fruit” (as Jesus admonished), and expose their “ravenous” nature for others to see.

A “Junior” Wolf

The wolf in sheep’s clothing that wrote me today is named Donato Anzalone. Unlike the “smoother” wolves, Mr. Anzalone seems to be so obvious in his nature, that he would seem to rank only as a “junior” among his “pack” of wolfish peers. Those who are really good at their devouring ways are never so silly to drop their guard and “sheep’s clothing” as this guy did, especially on a first contact. Yet, not only did this person do so, but he also attempted to recruit me to his wolfish agenda. Before I dissect his note, let me first simply quote it in its entirety without any commentary so that you can see if you can spot the saliva dripping from his little “wolf teeth’ for yourself.

The author is from Switzerland, and thus, I do not think English is his first language. So for the benefit of our international readers, I have fixed a homophone typographical error of his, so that our translation engine will properly translate the text. Where I have done so, I have [bracketed] the word to make that substitution obvious. If you want to read his original post without edits, simply view it toward the bottom of my Ask Rich page here on this website. Now, for his note:

Author: Donato Anzalone

I am so upset at your blog against Brother Copeland. Shame on you. [Whether] you are right or wrong. This is not the issue. The issue is that you are trying to build your ministry by attacking another fellow man of God. You are using Brother Hagin as well. But if you knew brother Hagin as much as you want people to believe, you would know that brother Hagin would have never used your practices… You better repentant before God and before Brother Copeland. Pastor Donato Anzalone

PS: Let us see if you dare to put this comment on your websites. all of them.

Now it is time to analyze this guy’s note to see if we can determine which wolfish characteristics he exposed. He removed his “sheep’s clothing” for anyone to see who knows for what to look. However, for some who are perhaps unskilled in wolf spotting, a few keys to remember before we begin our analysis:

  1. Jesus showed us that such people are “inwardly…wolves” and their exterior “sheep” appearance is only superficial. They are not genuinely born again.
  2. Jesus explained that they are also “ravening” or seeking their own self-interests, and not those of the Lord. That is why Jesus will be forced to say to such people—despite their claims for having done things in His Name—”I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

Can we see these two characteristics evident within his note above? Let’s break it down now:

Wolf Tracks

Let’s break his short comment down point-by-point, and in the process, reveal the fangs, drool, and ravening appetite.

Point 1: He Has No Care for the Copelands’ Souls

The first thing no note about what Mr. Anzalone’s note above is the fact that he shows absolutely no care for the Copelands and the state of their souls, when he writes:

I am so upset at your blog against Brother Copeland…. [Whether] you are right or wrong. This is not the issue.

Whether I am right or wrong is not the issue? First, to see how callous and uncaring this statement above is, let me first detail for a moment what our allegations are concerning Kenneth Copeland and his family. With copious videos, downloads, and other documentation, we have alleged within the various posts on KennethCopelandBlog.com:

  • That Kenneth Copeland has committed a multimillion-dollar fraud with regard to his broken promises concerning the promised Angel Flight 44 ministry (i.e. that he has stolen through deception).
  • That Kenneth Copeland has done such things before, as was revealed by the Senate Finance Committee’s findings with regard to his “Revival Capital of the World” broken promises (i.e. that he has a history of stealing through deception).
  • That Kenneth Copeland has lied repeatedly—and I document this by video, KCM “partner letters,” three BVOV magazines, and other such evidence (i.e. that Kenneth and his alleged “ministry” habitually lie).
  • That the Copelands are technically heretics in that they allege to preach a “prosperity gospel” which differs from that which was preached by Paul and the other apostles in the New Testament (i.e. that they are “accursed” as Paul explained in Galatians chapter 1).
  • That the Copelands are “covetous” which the Bible says is the same as “idolatry” (Ephesians 5:5), which would mean that they worship “things” instead of the God of the Bible.
  • That I am very concerned that the bulk of the evidence suggests that Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, and most of their family, have never been born again; and that their documentable wolfish nature seems to confirm this concern (i.e. that few—if any—of the members of that family are saved).

Now please consider a few passages of Scripture to put the above allegations into proper context, so as to understand the genuine concern that my wife and I have for the Copeland family:

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

(Ephesians 5:5-6, NKJV, emphasis added)

Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

(Revelation 21:5-8, NKJV, emphasis added)

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, NKJV)

So Mr. Anzalone thinks that whether I am right or wrong “is NOT the issue”? If I am RIGHT, then the Copelands are on a one-way trip to Hell!

Yet, Donato Anzalone is not concerned? How can this “junior wolf” possibly be saved himself if he has so little concern about the salvation of others?

Let me elaborate on this point just a bit: Charles H. Spurgeon is famously quoted has having said, “Have you no wish for others to be saved? Then you are not saved yourself. Be sure of that.” He also wrote within one of his marvelous sermons:

The burden which the true preacher of God bears is for God, and on Christ’s behalf, and for the good of men. He has a natural instinct which makes him care for the souls of others and his anxiety is that none should perish but that all should find salvation through Jesus Christ. Like the Christ who longed to save, so does the true Malachi, or messenger of God, go forth with this as his happy, joyful, cheerfully-borne burden—that men may turn unto God and live.

(An excerpt from “The Burden of The Word of the Lord” by Charles H. Spurgeon, emphasis added)

Charles Spurgeon uses the name of the famous prophet of the last book of the Old Testament “Malachi” to make a point: The meaning of that name in the original Hebrew is “My messenger.” God had chosen that prophet to be His messenger to Israel at a critical time in their history, and to be the final “trumpet” to announce the coming of the Messiah prior to the coming of John the Baptist some 400 years later. So Spurgeon points out that a true minister of God is a faithful “messenger” from God, who like his Lord, has genuine concern for the souls of people. Their “anxiety” is that “none should perish, but that all should find salvation through Jesus Christ.”

That is the heart of God. Thus, that is the heart of a true minister of God:

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

(James 5:19-20, NKJV, emphasis added)

But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

(Jude verses 20-23, NKJV, emphasis added)

Oh, my friends! If you are a genuine Christian, your soul should ache and grieve for those who are still within their sins and walking like blind men toward the precipice that will plunge them into Hell itself! Can you truly be a Christian if you are not?

But should not a true minister of Christ be even more so? Is that not their very calling, to “seek and save that which was lost” on behalf of the Savior Who employed them? Should not a genuine minister of God be known by his genuine compassion for the lost, for the errant, for the heretic, for the sinner—yea, even for the wolves?

I see no genuine concern within Donato Anzalone’s note for the souls of the Copeland; and so it is not surprising that I also see no genuine concern in his note for my own soul. If I am WRONG with my accusations against that family, then I am guilty of falsely accusing my siblings in Christ! Should not this man show concern for ME if he is to rebuke me according to biblical standards? Should he not care what judgment awaits ME, if I am actually in error?

No, Donato Anzalone does not seem to show the slightest concern for either the souls of the Copelands or my own. True love would, but Mr. Anzalone does not.

I can say with all sincerity, my own conscience bearing me witness, that my wife and I have a genuine concern for the souls of the Copeland family. That is why we are calling them to public account for their sins!

At the top of every page of that website it says, “Calling on the man, his family, and his ‘ministry’…to simply repent.” We want to see them saved! We are concerned also for the souls of those they are leading astray! Oh, dear God! How many people have to plunge into Hell before Mr. Anzalone considers these “issues” to be worthy of discussion as to whether we are “right or wrong”?

In truth, I cannot see how Donato Anzalone could possibly saved himself! It is rather obvious that he is not thinking “eternally” but rather carnally and according to temporal considerations alone.

This concerns me tremendously…and that is why I took the time to rebuke him publicly through this post. I can see a need to get Mr. Anzalone saved! There is no way he could be a genuine minister of Christ, with the careless attitude that he has shown for the souls of others!

As Brother Spurgeon once again explains it so wonderfully:

And why is the Word of the Lord a burden to him that speaks it? Well, first, it is a burden BECAUSE IT IS THE WORD OF THE LORD. If what we preach is only of man, we may preach as we like and there is no burden about it. But if this Book is inspired—if Jehovah is the only God, if Jesus Christ is God incarnate, if there is no salvation except through His precious blood—then there is a great solemnity about that which a minister of Christ is called upon to preach. It therefore becomes a weighty matter with him. Modern thought is a trifle light, as air, but ancient Truths of God are more weighty than gold.

And, first, the Word of the Lord becomes a burden in the reception of it. I do not think that any man can ever preach the Gospel aright until he has had it borne into his own soul with overwhelming energy. You cannot preach conviction of sin unless you have suffered it. You cannot preach repentance unless you have practiced it. You cannot preach faith unless you have exercised it. You may talk about these things—but there will be no power in the talk unless what is said has been experimentally proven in your own soul.

It is easy to tell when a man speaks what he has made his own, or when he deals in secondhand experience. ‘‘Son of man, eat this roll’’—you must eat it before you can hand it out to others. True preaching is artesian—it wells up from the great depths of the soul. If Christ has not made a well within us, there will be no outflow from us. We are not proper agents for conveying the Truth of God to others, if Divine Grace has not conveyed it to us. When we get God’s Word in our studies, we feel it to be a load which bows us to the ground. We are, at times, obliged to get up and walk to and fro beneath the terror of the threats of God’s Word. And often are we forced to bow our knee before the glory of some wonderful word of the Lord which beams with excessive Divine Grace.

We say to ourselves, ‘‘These are wonderful Truths—how they press upon our hearts!’’ They create great storms within us. They seem to tear us to pieces. The strong wind of the mighty Spirit blows through the messenger of God and he, himself, is swayed to and fro in it as the trees of the forest in the tempest. Therefore, even in the reception of the message of God, it is a burden.

(Another excerpt from “The Burden of The Word of the Lord” by Charles H. Spurgeon, emphasis added)

Do any of you reading this consider it a frivolous thing that we have spent untold thousands of hours confronting the Copeland family for their sins, and praying that God would grant them repentance leading to salvation? Do you think that such a task could be ANYTHING but “The Burden of The Word of the Lord” as Brother Spurgeon just explained above?

I can see within the note of Donato Anzalone above, that he seems unable to recognize the redemptive focus of our efforts. This is a STRONG indication that Mr. Anzalone has probably not experienced redemption himself. As the great evangelist George Whitefield explained within his powerful text, “Unconverted Ministers,” this is all-too common within the Church of Jesus Christ:

The Lord enabled me to open my mouth boldly against unconverted ministers; to caution tutors to take care of their pupils; and also to advise ministers particularly to examine the experience of candidates for ordination. For I am verily persuaded the generality of preachers talk of an unknown and unfelt Christ; and the reason why congregations have been so dead is, because they have had dead men preaching to them. O that the Lord may quicken and revive them, for His own name’s sake! For how can dead men beget living children? It is true, indeed, God may convert men by the devil, if He pleases, and so He may by unconverted ministers; but I believe He seldom makes use of either of them for this purpose. No, the Lord will choose vessels made meet by the operation of the blessed Spirit for His sacred use.

The great evangelist of the Nineteenth Century, Charles G. Finney, echoed this same concern during his “ordination” sermon to fourteen candidates for ordination to the Gospel ministry, in the summer of 1842, when he said:

Take heed then that you are truly converted men—not merely convicted sinners, but regenerate men, men whose hearts are right with God, and whose great motive in entering the ministry is to glorify God in the salvation of men. Remember if you are not converted men when you enter the ministry, you are almost certain to go to hell yourselves, and, so far as you have influence, to take your hearers with you.

And remember too that it is altogether too common, for it to be taken for granted on all hands that ministers are really converted men, I must say, and dare not say less, that every year’s experience and observation forces upon me more and more the conviction that it is becoming alarmingly common in these days of pressing so many young men into the ministry, for multitudes to enter upon that sacred office who are not truly regenerate men.

We have had, in this place, instances, not a few, of your men coming to this Institution to prepare for the ministry, who have turned out to have no religion at all—have been here convicted and for the first time converted—young men who had been supposed in Churches from which they came, and by which they were recommended, not only to be truly converted men, but your men of more than common piety, and promising candidates for the Christian ministry. And but for those powerful revivals in this Institution which broke up their delusions, numbers of them would no doubt have been this day, in all their sins, engaged in the sacred office of the ministry. Take heed then to yourselves, brethren, that you know what it is to be born of God, and that you know what it is to have an eye single to his glory in entering upon this sacred work.

Or, to put it the way Brother Hagin often did: Donato Anzalone needs to ensure that he is a “saint” and not merely an “ain’t.”

Point 2: Ravening Appetites

Wolves are best discovered by their “ravenous” nature, as we already learned from Jesus further above. Mr. Anzalone does not seem to be lacking on this point either. Consider first this “Freudian slip” when he wrote:

The issue is that you are trying to build your ministry by attacking another fellow man of God….

What? “Building a ministry” by “attacking a man of God”? Is this guy for real?

Was Jeremiah trying to “build his ministry” as he confronted royalty, ministers, and common folks alike, calling on them to repent before God’s judgment came upon them? Was Nathan trying to “build his ministry” when he confronted David for the sins of murder and adultery, in his affair with Bathsheba? Was Paul trying to “build his ministry” when he rebuked Peter at the church in Antioch for his public sins and hypocrisy, as is recorded in Galatians chapter 2?

Or…were all these genuine men of God trying to obey God, and help the subjects of their rebukes to see the error of their ways?

What Mr. Anzalone wrote is absurd. However, what he has just told us about himself is this:

  • Donato Anzalone believes that rebuking a man of God publicly will build a ministry.

I will not argue that the men of God we referenced above are esteemed today because they were so bold and loving. However, that would not seem to be Mr. Anzalone’s understanding of the true purpose in rebuking a person publicly. He seems to think that it “builds up a ministry.” Paul wrote, “To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled” (Titus 1:15, NKJV).

So the wolf just dropped his wooly robe: He is trying to build up his own “ministry” by rebuking ME publicly. Note what else he wrote:

PS: Let us see if you dare to put this comment on your websites. all of them.

This guy included his website in his comment post, as well. So it would seem that he wants me to run around, posting his absurd comment on ALL my websites, so that he can have some additional traffic to his own website. The guy did not even have the decency to post the comments on all my websites himself, but instead “dared” me to do it for him! (Like I work for this wolf!)

An Unclothed Wolf

The bulk of the evidence—and absurdity of this guy’s unethical and ridiculous challenge—suggest that this wolf thinks that by taking on the guy who “took on Copeland” that he can get some kind of fame among the wolf pack for himself. He must think that it will drive more traffic to his website so he can “build his ministry” by “attacking” a genuine man of God.

  • He seems to care nothing about the Copelands’ souls.
  • He seems to care nothing about MY soul, or those of my family.
  • He obviously seems to think that public rebukes for sin and wrong doing are nothing more than “attacks” against the sinners; it seems he cannot fathom their true biblical and eternal purpose of redemption.
  • He obviously thinks that the errant concept he has of such behavior will “build” a ministry.
  • He has blatantly asked me to publicize his foolish comment on “all” my websites.
  • So I have obviously concluded that he is an unsaved wolf, and a rather silly one at that.

However, let me not disappoint him! He apparently wants me to drive traffic to his “ministry” website, so let me oblige him.

There may be some sincere Christians reading this, who will take what I have written in here and then go to his website (by clicking here) to examine his other writings to see if they are consistent with that of a typical wolf (as I have done already have myself). If such genuine Christians find themselves equally concerned with me about Donato Anzalone’s soul—and the souls of those he may influence—then perhaps they can pray also for him that he will take this post to heart, recognize the terrifying state of his unregenerate soul, turn and repent, and finally put his faith in Jesus Christ for the remission of his sins so that he can finally be born again.

On the other hand, there may be some Copeland-cult members—and other similarly unsaved (and unconcerned about the Copelands’ souls) false converts—who read this and may want to pop over to Mr. Anzalone’s website to congratulate him on his effort to “confront” me (howbeit, falsely) for trying to get the Copeland family and their followers saved. If that is the case, please be sure to invite him to speak at your “church”! He is looking for “bookings” according to his website. (After all…you wolves should stick together within your “wolf packs,” should you not?)

Let me quickly note here that I did not bother dissecting his insincere “defense” of Brother Kenneth E. Hagin, as it is obvious from his comment that Donato Anzalone is unfamiliar with the contents of Hagin’s book, The Midas Touch. However, you can learn about that book at Rev. Hagin’s Previous REBUKE of Kenneth Copeland to see what Mr. Anzalone’s “fuss” was all about. You can then judge his comments about Hagin for yourself and form your own conclusions. (I even have video on there for you to watch.)

Aids for Discerning Wolves

Let me close this article by providing my readers with some very helpful downloads, which will help you to understand what characteristics to look for in true ministers of God. If you are a professing Christian, this will help you to pick your preachers much better. If you are a professing minister, this will help you to understand what standards God will judge you by once you enter into eternity and have to give an account for your ministry:

I believe the above PDF downloads will bless you all immeasurably, if you will take the message in each of them to heart.

If you are not sure of your own eternal salvation, however, please read The Supreme Value of Righteousness without delay! That article will share with you key truths from the Bible that you need in order to be sure that you are born again and ready for eternity.

And now, in closing:

Peace to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

(Ephesians 6:23-24, NKJV)

And for any stubborn wolves:

If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!

(1 Corinthians 16:22, NKJV)

Always in Jesus,

-Rich Vermillion

Note: Comments are welcome below… “if you dare” (to quote Donato Anzalone’s silliness once again).  😉

Posted in Bible, Charles Finney, Charles Spurgeon, Christianity, Church, False Brethren, George Whitefield, Judgement, Kenneth Copeland, Ministry, Repentance, Salvation and tagged , , , , , , , , .


  1. Good article Rich. It’s typical for people like Mr. Anzalone to try to defend the defective doctrines of Mr. Copeland. To Anzalone guys like Copeland are “untouchable” and are never to be questioned. I was in the “WoF” for 20+ years so I know all the tactics,buzzwords,and other assorted malarkey these “ministers” like to intimidate and/or threaten the sheep with. Keep on going on Rich!

    • Thanks, HeyBro!

      It is always a blessing when God-fearing people drop by to “Amen!” a post of mine. It is especially a blessing when it is one of my more “blunt” posts. 😉

      It seems to me that there are too few Preachers of Righteousness in these days of open apostasy, who are willing to stand up and speaking hard-core truths that are intended to save souls and “convert sinners from the error of their ways” (see James 5:19-20). Most simply want to be “nice” and cannot even stand the thought of being so honest and blunt, for fear they may “offend” someone (and loose their speaking invitations and/or offerings). Of course, too many of the “ministers” who fall into this category are unsaved themselves, as this post above already noted; and more than a few are members of the “wolf pack.”

      However, genuine ministers of Christ have a totally different mindset. Regardless of how “socially acceptable” the Truth of God’s Word might be or not, they labor in such a way as to ensure that shall they NOT stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and find HIM offended for them allowing lost souls to plunge over the precipice of sin and death into Hell and damnation:

      2 Corinthians 5: 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. (NKJV)

      Many Christians today consider Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Bunyan, John Wesley, George Whitefield, Charles Spurgeon, Dwight L. Moody, Charles Finney, Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, and many others, to be genuine men of God. They rejoice in their faith and accomplishments for the Kingdom of God. Of course, bviously, there were variances among them regarding their theology. For example, the latter two in the list above were Pentecostal, while the others were not. However, there were several key distinctions that is identical among them all:

        (1) – They loved God more than the praise of men.
        (2) – They were bold and confrontational; and seemed to be nearly “fearless” in their presentation of God’s truth to others.
        (3) – They were genuinely concerned about the eternal welfare of others above their own self-interests.

      Oh, that professing Christians would awaken today, turn away from the many godless “preachers” who care only about their own selves!

      Instead, may they seek out ministers who have been fashioned by God in the same types of “molds” that these other men (and some godly women) were formed within. If nothing else, Christians today can read the works of these godly men above, compare those teachings with the Bible as the Bereans did in Acts 17, “to see if these things be so,” and embrace all the Truth that these ministers taught with pure motives, while rejecting any error that may yet be detected therein (as all of them had “blind spots” for none of them were omniscient, any more than any of us are today).

      If people today followed such a protocol, they would ensure that they are themselves genuinely born again; they would grow spiritually in leaps and bounds, and be less susceptible to deception—and apostasy and heresy would cease to spread so readily through the Church. They would also then be in a better position to properly examine the “fruit” of modern ministers, as they look for “good trees” today from which they can “feed.”

      Let me note with joy, however, that I am sincerely glad for the several preachers that I do know, who likewise found their ministries upon such solid biblical principles and genuine love for their Lord. God has been working “behind the scenes” to raise up true godly men and women, and I believe many of these “chosen vessels” will come to the forefront soon.

      I am also very thankful to God for the many honest Christians who frequent our websites in search of biblical truth…especially when they post kind comments of affirmation, as you have done today, my brother. 🙂

      Always in Jesus,


      • Rich I’d also like to add because I’d forgotten this. Anyway in the ’80’s Dr. Walter Martin rebuked Kenneth Copeland publicly after Kenny’s infamous prophecy about Jesus saying,”I never claimed to be God just that I walked with Him (God) and that He was in me.” Martin even set up a meeting with Copeland through Paul Crouch but Copeland backed out. (Surprise,surprise!) He also accused Martin of hating him and his ministry. Another ploy used by “WoF” preachers when their backed up against a wall and have no more spiffy sayings to defend themselves.

      • Wow, HeyBro!

        I had never heard of that event (as that was during my “BC” days…chuckle). It sounds like something Copeland would say, however.

        Copeland also NEVER lets anyone righteous get near him to discuss his errors, so I am not surprised he backed out of the meeting either. He began to run “deep and silent” like a submarine once I began to get vocal with Glen Hyde about KCM’s failure to form the Angel Flight 44 ministry—despite the likely $2-4million that was taken into their GENERAL fund (i.e. not the AF44 fund, but the fund which out of which the Copeland family draws their own opulent salaries).

        I agree that heretics love playing the “pity” card whenever they get backed into a corner. Joel Osteen is famous for this too. “Why don’t we all just get along? We should love one another and not argue over doctrinal differences,” he has said (paraphrasing). While that sounds good, and would certainly apply to MINOR doctrinal disputes, when it comes to Osteen denying that Jesus “is the Way, the Truth, and the Life” and that nobody comes to the Father, but by JesusTHAT is another thing entirely! Only a bona fide heretic would be so quick to say that such core doctrinal issues are subject to “opinion”:

        …Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ….

        These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

        Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” (An excerpt from Jude, NKJV)

        Stay strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might, HeyBro! Continue to keep the faith!

        And thanks for popping back for another note. 🙂

        Always in Jesus,


    • glad to find ur exposing at least one of these wolves my husband bob is called to expose them all. shalom max

  2. “Nameless people are fatherless people – Donato Anzalone”

    Guess this chap has never read what the Lord said to the church in Sardis:
    “I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.” (Revelation 3:1)

  3. Great article! I found this Donato Anzalone on fb and then his website and he is a Rhema Bible (Hagins) fan and student. Whenever someone calls any of the fleecer/newager doctrine pastors/evangelists, a “brother”, I always ask them if satan is their father? For he is certainly these guys father according to Jesus and, to be a “brother” of any of them would be to admit satan is your father. Gets some interesting (even nasty) results which I just ignore and move on. But, occasionally, I get deeper inquiries about the Scriptures which point this out. Then when Scripture is poured forth from Jesus, Paul, and especially 1 Peter 5:1-2 and all of 2 Peter chapter 2.

    • Thanks for the feedback, Ron. Your further inquiry into Mr. Anzalone’s background is also helpful, as it confirmed my suspicion that he had attended RHEMA.

      I do believe Kenneth E. Hagin was actually born again. Though he was surely in error on several points (and goofy on others) I believe that he was a sincere person. His protege’s, however, such as Copeland, show all the signs of true wolves and I believe we have biblical grounds to question their conversion experience. Moreover, if Hagin had been more aware of the Scriptures on biblical rebuke and correction, and better at confronting such wolves over the years, there would NOT be so much heresy and error coming from the WoF circles today.

      Overall, I agree with your point that people need to be careful with the “brother” label, until they verify that the “father” of the other person is the same one as our Holy Father in Heaven! 😉

      May God bless you, Ron, for your righteous zeal and diligence in His Word. Thanks also for the “Amen!”

      Always in Jesus,


  4. Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord, who was and is and is to come and comes in His perfect day, amen.

    May Lord Jesus Christ’s peace be with you and found in all of you in the peace of His sovereign day, amen.

    This public rebuke of the Copelands is Godly and is Christ’s will.

    All men are to come into repentance….

    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and all the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:9-10.

    What people are not understanding and they need to is Jesus is the word of God manifest in the flesh….The bible is the book Of God that contains the word of God manifest in the flesh. So all true scripture is manifest in the flesh, it happens every part.

    All men are to come into repentance, all means all no exceptions.

    Admonishment and exhortation is an apostolic and prophetic Kingdom anointing, not all can do it, because not all have His authority to do it. That is why Paul was chosen to admonish and exhort the church and also warn them night and day. His chosen ministers are also sent out to admonish and exhort, but not all listen. The ones that do are blessed, the ones that don’t are chastened.

    But take heed that you remember to remain humble, because it is by Grace through Faith that this will manifest….lest u give way to pride and oppression…..

    Obadiah 3

    The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?

    This long suffering that is required to bring all men into repentance, will bring forth patience and maturity that goes with Faith in the good soil that brings forth fruit to perfection, which then truly means By Grace you are saved by Faith, we are saved for Jesus’ sake and our own. Admonishment and exhortation is given by grace to do, its a blessing to behold and apart of, because it brings deliverance and it brings forth blessing….Jesus came and brought grace and truth…its the truth that sets everyone free.

    If the Copeland’s come into repentance, then so will a whole lot of others too. And they are being given grace and time so that they can come into repentance or given every opportunity too. Hagin was in error, but he was given truth before he died, so he could correct. Same as Oral Roberts was in error, but he also saw truth before he died. Both were compelled by this corrective truth. Its the corrective and admonished truth that saves and rescues people out including the wolves in sheep’s clothing….who are devoured of the devourer, and deceived by the deceiver and oppressed by the oppressor…..and are in bondage to their sins, iniquities and transgressions.

    But God’s judgment is in this earth, as result of people refusing to come into perfection and not walk away from the false. All need to be saved, but as you have learned not all that wear the name Christian are saved and that should have the whole church on their knees with much sorrow of heart. Lest they receive this judgment, which is dreadful in working but will also bring forth a Godly repentance before the end, so that the word Peter spoke comes true.

    Lord Jesus Christ will not only hold leader’s accountable, but also whole congregations accountable for this sin of deception…..but the reason why others don’t want the Copelands to repent, because they all share in the same sin….the love of money. And if they admit the truth then they will have to rely on Christ, not money. Too many are just spiritually lazy and oppressed of the devil.

    Jesus was manifest to destroy the works of the oppressor, the devil.

    But the wolf and the lamb do dwell together….and they shall not hurt nor harm in all my holy mountain…..Isaiah 11:6, 9 that heralds and brings in His perfect rest…Isaiah 11:10.

    But take heed and take care to look after all his lambs, sheep and remember to remain humble and patient when dealing with and in admonishment and exhortation….as a parent of the Lord that cherishes all His children.

    Out of humility and patience, comes graceful and grace filled honor which is His perfect peace and rest.

    Correct your children given to you and they shall give thee rest.

    On an end note….you are dealing with a double blinding…. one from the devil, and the other from God, because they loved not the truth…2 Thes. 2:9-12

    Praise Lord Jesus Christ that he still admonishes and exhorts his people and His will is to bring all into repentance…..



  5. I know this blog is primarily about Copeland. So if you will indulge me I’d like to comment in a broader perspective. One message of the “WoF” is to live and walk in “divine health.” What strikes me is how this concept doesn’t even work in the lives of the leaders in this movement. Let me elaborate,Charles Capps wife had cancer and medically treated,Dodie Osteen cancer,John Osteen died from several ailments,Buddy Harrison,Hagin’s son in law died of cancer in 1998,Joyce Meyer breast cancer,medically treated,Betty Price cancer medically treated. What’s my point? All if not all these people taught divine healing for decades. One would think that they should’ve arrived at the place in their spiritual lives that they should’ve just “confessed” their ailments away! Oh yes! I’ve heard all the excuses made for these “spiritual giants” like,oh well they’re on the “front lines” and they’re doing a “great spiritual work!” Now if you or I get sick well,we probably made a bad confession or we didn’t exercise our faith. I’ve also read where Kenny C. flew to Arkansas to see a chiropractor! Why after teaching “faith” for 40 years is Kenny even seeing any kind of doctor? Don’t get me wrong I’m glad these people did seek medical attention but shouldn’t it raise some questions about these people? Just some food for thought here.

    • Hey there, HeyBro.

      I suppose by “blog” you mean this specific article; this would be reasonably factual, as Copeland is featured herein second only to the “junior wolf.” However, this website as a whole is NOT focused on Copeland, though he comes up occasionally. The KennethCopelandBlog.com website is focused on KC, but this one is not. This one, RichVermillion.com, is intended to be a website of general ministry (though Copeland certainly makes a convenient point of reference when getting on “wolf” topics, such as this post does).

      That clarification said, I think you raise an interesting point. The Word of Faith (WoF) teachers tend to distort the biblical teaching of divine healing into being something that the Bible does not support (as they also tend to do with just about every other topic they teach, merely because such errant teaching sells better). For example, we can look through the Book of Acts and see that through the ministry of the apostle, Paul, people were healed of ailments by God—and often multitudes would come to be healed (such as happened on the island of Malta in chapter 28). Yet, Paul did NOT walk with the “WoF” twisted concept of “divine health,” nor did all his staff/associates tend to walk in such “divine health.” Again, the impression that one can “walk” in a perpetual state of “divine health” is stupid, and certainly false teaching, as the Bible clearly give us indication:

      You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first. (Galatians 4:13, NKJV)

      Yet I considered it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, fellow worker, and fellow soldier, but your messenger and the one who ministered to my need; since he was longing for you all, and was distressed because you had heard that he was sick. For indeed he was sick almost unto death; but God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. (Philippians 2:25-27, NKJV)

      No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments. (1 Timothy 5:23)

      Erastus stayed in Corinth, but Trophimus I have left in Miletus sick. (2 Timothy 4:20, NKJV)

      So here we see that the esteemed apostle, Paul, occasionally became sick or infirm; and some of the people around him having their own challenges at times with sickness or ailments. Paul even recommended (by the Spirit) a natural remedy to Timothy for his stomach problems, which is one that is know today to be quite good at combating intestinal infections resulting from poor water and/or food-borne microbiological contaminants.

      As with the so-called “prosperity” teaching of these wolves, the “healing” teaching is also too-often distorted into something that the Bible cannot support. In the article above, I referred to such doctrines as “Picasso Theologies” because their distorted features do not resemble the original subject at all.

      Now, let me clarify that there is such a thing as “Divine healing” (i.e. God doing it) through the earnest prayers of godly saints for the sick. That is clear from Scripture, and even the story of Epaphroditus cited above. So I recommend that people do NOT “throw out the baby with the bathwater” because of false teaching by questionable people. In my opinion, many of the people you named in your comment, HeyBro, were probably never born again. Thus, it is every understandable that their doctrines would distort things into shapes that are unbiblical, especially since their list of “gods” includes money. Their version of “divine healing” sells better than the biblical one—which Scriptures were meant to simply HELP people rather than to profit off of them.

      An honest portrayal of the subject from the Bible would include such points as made above, and even honest admissions of challenges to one’s health. Yes, there can be “spiritual attacks,” but it is even more common that the simple environment we live in down here tends to cause illness. So I always add to any teaching on this subject the need for proper health habits and nutrition, and the advise to go to an emergency room (ER) or doctor if there are alarming symptoms PLUS prayer and standing in faith on God’s Word for an eventual full recovery.

      I also am prone toward homeopathic and alternative medicines, as they tend to be quite good toward curing ailments (like the wine approach above) with less side effects than the chemical versions that the pharmaceutical industry peddles for profit. But the key is treatment of the ailment, not personal preferences. So I tend to “attack” physical symptoms from the Word and prayer first, but then hit it with nutrients, homeopathic treatments, and if necessary, pharmaceuticals, or even a trip to the doctor or ER. Perhaps it is the U.S. Marine in me, but I attack sickness from the “land, sea, and air” until there is nothing left to shoot at. 😉

      Thanks for the question, HeyBro! That is a good point to address, indeed.

      Always in Jesus,


      • The story that Kristy Beach tells of her mother Bonnie Parker, how her mother thought God didn’t heal her of cancer because she didn’t give KCM enough $$, realy got to me. In the June 2011 KCM magazine, a story of a woman who got healed from polio complications got to me too. Right from the beginning they make sure they mention that the lady is a KCM Partner! Like your chances are great to be healed if you just become one.

      • Do you show post that glorify God, only when you are glorified as well? Woe to you if this is the case. This is the third time i have given God Glory, for all to see, and it is kept hidden………….. why?

      • Hello,

        This website saves all comments in a moderation queue for an administrator to review before allowing them to be fully published. The reason we did this was because we are often tied up with other projects, and do not have the time to monitor the comments sections of this website continuously. People sometimes try to post strange things, and thus, we want to have an opportunity to review everything before it is made public. So all comments–regardless of who writes them–are moderated. There are no exceptions, except for the website’s administrators (who the system recognizes as trusted commentators).

        Therefore, there was no ill-will directed toward you in any way, nor were your comments singled out or deleted before now. I have all three of them viewable in the back end of this website right now as I write this reply.

        However, I fail to see how you are “glorifying God” while falsely accusing us of seeking glory for ourselves. While you wrote your accusation in the form of an interrogative (question), rhetorically, it is nothing less than a false charge leveled against us for no valid reason. You were simply being impatient, and jumped to a false conclusion, and then accused us within an interrogative sentence. Hence, you are violating the 9th Commandment, “You shall not bear false witness against your brother” (Exodus 20:16). I fail to see how that “glorifies God” in any way since He commanded you NOT to do such things. 😉

        Moreover, having reviewed your previous two posts in reference to 2 Chronicles 16:12-13, I fail to see how they are on-topic with this article thread. While we agree with you that it is good to trust God for our health and to seek His wisdom about that subject, that has nothing to do with this page’s topic in any notable manner. So I will delete those comments after posting this reply in-part due to your false accusation, but mostly due to the fact that they are irrelevant to the conversation on this page of our website.

        Thank you for understanding. I trust that you will henceforth be more patient in awaiting comments coming out of moderation, and that you will avoid false accusations in the future. Please also try to keep your comments on-topic. Thank you. 🙂

        Always in Jesus,


    • Wow I just found this site very intresting reading.I do believe as a Blood bought child of God that He does heal does that mean we will never get sick no it dont but I see Dodie Osteen name up there and in 1980 she had a deadly case of liver cancer the doctors told her to go home nothing they could do she was going to die and she is still alive today!!!

      • Howdy, Joseph. Thanks for stopping by and reading the website. 🙂

        Please let me clarify for you that I did NOT intend ANY of my own comments within the article above, or my additional commentary within this thread, to imply in the least bit that I do NOT believe in God’s ability to heal people miraculously. I surely do. In fact, I am a Spirit-filled minister of Christ who has actually experienced healing myself on several occasions, and have seen others healed under our own ministry.

        I also have no reason to doubt Dodie Osteen’s testimony of having been healed years ago. However, that said, it is nonetheless a fact that her son is a raging heretic NOW. Thus, despite God’s grace on behalf of Dodie in times past, she has not only permitted her son to spread heresy and damn his own soul (see Galatians 1:6-10), but she has actually encouraged it by NOT seeing to it that the board (of which she is a part) censure him and set Joel down until it is clear that HE HIMSELF is saved, and his doctrine corrected.

        Thus, BLOOD is on ALL their hands (see Acts 20:17-38), as souls follow Joel toward the precipice overlooking Hell, with Dodie’s smiling approval:

        Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. [Note: Dodie has failed to obey this Scripture.]

        Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. [Note: Few find the “narrow gate.” Why? Because “broad way” preachers are detracting them from truth…as the next verses discuss.]

        15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

        21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” [Note: “Few” find the narrow gate, but “many” find the broad way that leads to destruction — that the “wolves” preach, for the sake of their own gain. Now in this verse, Jesus says that the result is that “many” will THINK that they are Christians, but discover only too late that they are unsaved because they were on the “broad way” that “many” will choose to walk upon. This is one continuous message, and speaks fearful things that should be soberly considered by all. It also demonstrates how ungodly Joel and Dodie Osteen really are, as they lead others toward damnation today…which the next Bible quote addresses more fully.]

        2 Corinthians 11:Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!…

        12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

        Thus, in conclusion: Neither Donna (my wife) or I are against the teaching/subject of divine healing form the Scriptures (as long as it is taught PROPERLY…something that is fairly rare today, I might add). Nor are we against Spirit-filled practices, such as manifestation of the Gifts of the Spirit as explained in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 (though, again, much of that which is done today under such a label is demonic, and thus, NOT true manifestations of the Holy Spirit).

        So let me suggest a few of my other key articles to you, by directing you to our About/Biography page where we have some of them conveniently listed. “Preachers of Righteousness” and “Judging Prophecy Correctly” are probably the best two to begin with to see how we differentiate between GENUINE miracles and Spirit-filled behavior in contrast to demonic manifestations done by counterfeits. However, I would suggest reading all of them for the best theological understanding of these subjects, in the light of Scripture.

        Also, please watch the video in the right column of this website if you would like to know a bit more about my own ministry office, and how the Lord has used me in regard to the Gifts of the Spirit (at least how He used me within the context of the TV host’s personal testimony about my ministry — which, of course is only a snapshot of one aspect of our ministry, and not representative of all that we do or have done).

        Thank you for coming by, Joseph. I hope my points here clarify our position on “healing” and the such better, and that the other articles I mentioned above will bless you and add further clarity.

        Always in Jesus,


  6. Thanks Rich I stand corrected I mixed up this site with Kenny’s blog,my error. Yes I agree with you that God is still in the miracle and healing business. However what the “WoF” teaches is a big distortion. What amazes me is what Fred Price said many years ago i.e. “I don’t allow sickness in my house!” This was years before Betty contracted cancer. Now I don’t make light of nor do I gloat over the fact that Betty got sick. I’m glad the Lord had mercy on her and she is still here to this day. Anyway I just felt like venting this morning and am frustrated that more people don’t see through these wolves. Although there are some that are realizing the snow job they’ve been taught.

    • I understand your frustration, HeyBro. When one sees people being led astray, it is very vexing for a righteous man or woman to behold. Godly people want to see people truly taught, healed, delivered, & etc. Wolves merely want to “make merchandise” of those they ensnare with their trip:

      As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (Colossians 2:6-8, NKJV)

      BUT ALSO [in those days] there arose false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among yourselves, who will subtly and stealthily introduce heretical doctrines (destructive heresies), even denying and disowning the Master Who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their immoral ways and lascivious doings; because of them the true Way will be maligned and defamed. And in their covetousness (lust, greed) they will exploit you with false (cunning) arguments. From of old the sentence [of condemnation] for them has not been idle; their destruction (eternal misery) has not been asleep. (2 Peter 2:1-3, The Amplified Bible)

      The King James Version (KJV) of the above quote from Peter says that such false teachers “make merchandise” of their overly trusting hearers. I like the Amplified Bible’s rather blunt “exploit” term above too, as that says it all. “Ravenous” wolves (as the above article details already) are only seeking their own greedy gain and agendas. That is why I suggest above in the article that it is best to identify THOSE characteristics of true wolves (as Jesus did) because it is easier to document and point out to those being led astray, and use the doctrinal points to confirm what the other evidence so clearly indicates.

      Let me note briefly, however, that we likewise have the attitude that “we don’t allow sickness in our house.” However, what we mean by that is that we will attack sickness with “tooth and toe nail” if necessary to get rid of it. Like I said before, we will use whatever means is appropriate, and prayer is typically a part of the mix. Nevertheless, we do not imply in public ministry that we are walking in the level of health and wholeness that Jesus did when He walked the earth. We have had our challenges, but we face them head-on instead of merely putting up with them.

      So in THAT sense, I can agree with such a statement as you quoted Fred Price discussing. However, if he left the idea with his audience that they are walking in “divine health” (which is something not supported by the Bible, especially as it has been portrayed by the wolves in order to sell more products) then like yourself, I would have to object to such an assertion, as it is patently false in his own family’s case (as you pointed out).

      Thanks HeyBro for your thoughtful commentary, as I can see that it is written in true righteous indignation. I have done that once or twice myself. 🙂

      Always in Jesus,


    • Didn’t Billy Joe Daugherty die of cancer young even though he preached like Copeland did too? I see I had a lack of compassion for others. I used to think, “What’s wrong with you, just quote the word and tell the syptoms to go, and it will all be ok!” But then, why did John Haggi’s wife have breast cancer surgery? He always spoke of Lizzie Gross’s healing from a death sentence brain tumor and how they all just fought the good fight of faith and it was all ok.

      I feel I am joining a “lynch mob” and being a “Judas” because I am talking “bad” about these folks that I always looked up to as being God’s voice on the earth.

      But I need to know what is true. I am responsible for my actions that are wrong when I tell others…O just quote the word and you will be fine or listen to such and such a preacher cuz they know were it is at. It is not just about me and the quality of my life being poor because I throw out money believing a lie, it is also how I effect others if I bring them into a sheep fold that is more like a CULT!

      It is a crappy feeling believing that someone didn’t get healed just because I failed them due to not having enough faith, or feeling that things go bad because I did not mail in money this week.

  7. God bless you Rich. This article was very timely for me, for similiar accusations has risen up against me, due to my book. “Trying to build my own ministry”, is something that I have heard recently. This only shows me that this “method”, is really a calling card from the enemy, to silence those who God has commanded to speak. This article has strengthen me today. Those who still believe that sound doctrine is the answer for people who have caught “the apostasy flu”, will rejoice over this message. If you don’t mind my Brother, I would like to post this on my blog.

    • Tavares, my brother: It is a blessing you stopped by and were encouraged by this article. In fact, it is a pleasure merely to hear from you again, as I am always pleased when I hear from my brother. 🙂

      I would prefer it if you simply posted an excerpt on your website, and then directed your readers back to the full article. However, if you want to post several excerpts and add your own commentary to your post on your blog, and link them back to the original post, then that would be fine too.

      Either of these two methods above has the added benefit of ensuring that the readers can have access to all the links, images, and previous commentary, of my original article. It also allows them to read some of my other related posts as they may feel so inclined. Please feel free to pop back here to post a link back to your post as well, however, so that people can read your own commentary. That would all my readers to be similarly blessed by your own content. 😀

      Thank you again for the hearty, “Amen!”

      Always in Jesus,


    • “Apostasy flu”….Funny, since I started feeling like KCM is a Cult and most of these ministers are more like cult leaders….I stopped hateing myself.

      I mean….life would be perfect if I just had enough faith right? (according to the teachings) So everything must be my fault because I am not standing on the word hard enough, or because I got a little sad over something so I must have “lost the victory.”

      I feel better now. I think I got over that flu. I mean I realy feel good like the world is no longer on my shoulders and the outcome of EVERYTHING in no longer dependent on my level of faith.

      I turn to God, I pray, I read and remember what the word says….but I feel better about my view of it all now.

      • Kathy,

        I am thrilled that you have recovered from the “flu,” Sis. That’s a good metaphor too, by the way. 😉

        Let me also commend you for thinking these issues through so much. Too many people just keep drinking the proverbial “Kool-Aid” and never question the inconsistencies that glare at them so obviously. You are doing great!

        Let me give you a couple of nuggets here to chew on as well: Healing is in the Bible, and I have seen such divine works of grace in our ministry and the lives of others. Faith is a part of the process, of course, but that is NOT the only issue at play in many cases. The gifts of the Holy Spirit (specifically, the Gift of Healing, but also Working of Miracles and special Faith at times) will manifest “as the Spirit wills (1 Corinthians chapter 12), and such events make things seem “easy” to be healed. Thus, when the gifts are absent for some reason (perhaps unknown to us), it is too easy to question the faith of the sick person instead of looking for real answers to help them.

        Also, the Bible is clear that the minister can have sufficient faith to tie into healing for people at times, as “the prayer of faith will heal the sick, and the Lord shall raise them up” (James 5:15). That promise was tied to calling for the elders of the church, which indicates it is the faith of the PREACHER in that verse which is being discussed, and not the faith of the sick person at all! (You generally never hear that taught by the people you are discussing, of course.)

        So the Bible is true, God does heal…but this topic is one which is far more comprehensive than is often portrayed. The reality is that many of the more popular preachers of today (though I cannot say this about them all, as I do not know them all) is that they press the issue of the recipient’s faith because they either do not care about the person in front of them (i.e. faith works by love), or they really just want the person’s money because the preacher is really a wolf and not a genuine minister of God (and thus, has no anointing to help the person). Thus, you are really on track when you inspect the fruit of those alleged “ministries” and to note the cult-like nature of many of them. Well done, Sis.

        Stay with God. Stay in His Word, and run from the wolves. Be sure not to catch that “flu” again, and you are going to excel and grow. 😀

        Always in Jesus,


      • Thank you for your reply Rich. You said things I needed to hear.

        Because I respect your opinion, could you please tell me where you stand on the rapture?

        Do you believe in the rapture of believers, and if you do, do you feel it will be pre-tribulation, or durring the tribulation.

        Thank you,


      • Kathy, that is a great question, but one that takes more than a couple of lines to answer properly. Nevertheless, let me give you the “quick” version, and I hope the Lord will bless you hereby despite the shortness of this answer.

        I will say first that I certainly DO believe that there will be a “catching away” of the saints of God (i.e. rapture) because of passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:17:

        Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        As to timing: There are sometimes ferocious arguments over that topic. My short answer is one that I got from a friend of mine when he said, “I am a pan-millennialist…I believe it will all ‘pan out’ in the end.” The fact is that each group can “prove definitively” their view of a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation (this last one of which I have a hard time accepting). So the Lord seems to have made it “absolutely clear” to everyone that their view is right…as least in their own minds. So to be honest with ourselves, we have to be frank enough to say, “This is the way I see it…but I could be wrong, as there are other views that seem supported by Scripture to some degree as well.”

        The key thing to remember about what the apostles all preached (when viewing the Book of Acts) is that they ALL emphasized the eventual return of the Lord to judge the world…but none of them gave a date, nor did any of them even get into such doctrinal disputes on the subject as many people are apt to do today. I will fight “tooth and toenail” over the doctrinal truth that Jesus WILL return (and that, very soon)…but I am not prone to let people drag me into timing-related arguments (except when you get some fool say he knows the actual date…then I might try to help the poor nut out).

        With all that said, here is my “short answer” to the timing part of your question (and I will probably have to publish a more substantial treatment of this topic to do it justice):

        Several passages in Daniel and Revelation indicate that THE Great Tribulation occurs for three and a half years. Here is one such passage from
        Revelation 13:4-5 (King James Version):

        And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

        However, there is also an unfulfilled seven-year “week” of events regarding Israel that will occur in the Last Days (see Daniel chapter 9). Verse 27 of that same chapter seems to indicate that the Antichrist will set up an idol in the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem during the mid-point of that period (i.e. three and a half years into the seven-year period). Then Jesus said that at that moment, the real bad stuff begins:

        But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains…For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. (See Mark 13)

        And Paul said clearly that God has NOT appointed His true Church unto wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), and of course, the Great Tribulation is called “the wrath of God” in Revelation and elsewhere.

        So in summary: I see in the Scripture a definitive return of the Lord Jesus Christ to judge, rule, and reign over the earth. I see a seven-year End Time “week” to be fulfilled, but only a three and one half year Great Tribulation that will be during the last half of that “week.” I also see God rapturing out His true saints at the beginning of that outpouring of His wrath, in order to preserve us from those terrible days of Tribulation. And finally, I see the Lord and His saints returning together to set up the Thousand-Year Reign of Christ upon the earth, according to Revelation 19:11-14 (King James Version) and elsewhere:

        And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

        So I am not exactly a “mid-tribulation” theologian, as I do not see that the Great Tribulation will be any longer than the last three and a half years. Nor am I exactly a “pre-tribulation” theologian, as I DO see us leaving before the bad stuff begins…but again, I do not see the Great Tribulation being the full seven years, as most within that sect do. So I would be best called a “Pre-Wrath” theologian, with the clarification that the wrath of God (i.e. the Great Tribulation) being only the last three and a half years of the final full seven-year “week” of Daniel’s prophetic writings.

        This short discussion did NOT do this point justice, I know; but I hope it was helpful to you.

        Let me note for the benefit of others reading this: I occasionally get wild and argumentative comments from people wanting to combat me on topics such as this, whenever I have not taken the time to express a full exegesis. So let me state here that I will neither approve such comments, nor reply to them, when people try to argue with me on this point. (I had one guy post the same lengthy comment three times elsewhere on another article before he finally got the hint that I had no intention of approving it, much less replying to it.) I do not mind honest intellectual discourse with people who disagree with me. However, I do mind my short comments being attacked through bloated rebuttals by people seeking merely to fight over details that are NOT conclusive in the Scripture (as I mentioned discussed at the opening of this comment further above). My schedule is just too busy for such wastes of time, especially since Paul admonished us to avoid “foolish and stupid arguments, which do gender strife” anyway (see 2 Timothy 2:23).

        Thanks again, Kathy, for your question. Blessings to you Sis! 😀

        Always in Jesus,


      • Also, when the great WoF giants embrace healthy lifestyles and diets, they seldom make that a subject of their “vending machine” gospel. Otherwise it takes the air out of the WoF bubble regarding health and EVERYONE having healing for the asking. Hypocrits…the lot of ’em.

      • You have raised a good point, Rick, that is applicable to several issues related to these wolves. Not only do they avoid mentioning the practical things they do in regard to their health habits and how that fits into the divine healing subject, but they also fail to mention their investments and business ventures on the “prosperity’ side of things too. “Give to us, and you will get a harvest” they say, but they fail to explain how they do not live by that same method themselves. Good points.

        I will point out that many WoF wolves are into the botox and face lift craze, and even some very unhealthy practices. Copeland is big-time into the use of HGH (human growth hormone) treatments to control his weight, thanks to his personal physician, Dr. David Weider…who is another nut that would intriguing to discuss sometime (though I will refrain from that now). That is why Copeland is starting to look a bit like he has anorexia lately. If he stays on that path, it is likely that his obsession with looking “thin” doesn’t kill him via the harsh treatment of his body.

        Thanks for your comment, Rick. We “Richards” do have to stick together, do we not? 🙂

        Always in Jesus,


  8. Thank you for answering my question about the rapture. Your answer is a sane one! I too feel the ones who set dates are nut cases! What I notice about your teachings, they are sane as opposed to other preachers teachings that are on the fringe of insane, and you feel like you are being told by them if you question things then you are in doubt and unbelief. I am enjoying my new found freedom to question things! I took a big step last night. I called up KCM and TBN and told them to take me off their mailing list! The funny thing is that all of these years I felt if I did not do what I was told by these preachers, that horrible things would happen and I would never get anywhere in life or be blessed. Separating myself from them and just focusing on God has made me feel more empowered and BLESSED than I ever felt being “in the way” with them! I feel like I have my life back. I feel like when I was obeying and listening to teachings of KCM and others like them, like I was told more or less, to keep my eyes on them and all will be ok, and like I had my eyes on them and kept looking back over my shoulder at Jesus. I am not sure for why I feel that analogy, but I do know I feel my heart and soul is looking at Jesus now with THEM (KCM) being left in the rear view mirror!

    God bless you brother in the Lord!


    • Sane theology is always the best theology! 😀

      Thank you for your kind words, Kathy. May God’s blessings come upon you and all that is yours in abundance.

      Always in Jesus,


  9. I feel I am talking too much. I mean I am glad I question things, but I don’t want to seem like I’m not leaving room for anyone else on this page! “smiles” It’s just that I had a thought.

    I was told Copeland may be a high level Freemason. I was told that at the higher levels they believe that lucifer IS GOD!!? “Nuts” But if Copeland is such as those folk…well…didn’t lucifer try to invoke the power of God by “naming and claiming”? Didn’t lucifer say he would do such and such like raise his throne above God’s? Like he was trying to “speak things into existence”?

    Don’t get me wrong! I do believe I can say, with a heart that is right before the Lord, “I believe the stripes on Jesus’ back are for my wellness. Lord, I raise my hands and receive healing.”

    But! I do not feel I am to use the word of God like, as in witchcraft, to repeat the verse over and over like it is some incantation. To do so, wouldn’t it be like being as lucifer?

    Like I remember Copeland saying once he counted how many times he repeated “By His stripes I am healed” till the healing came. And I remember how, years ago, he used to repeat over and over and tell us to do the same chant of something like, “I AM”. I remember that, and I heard that freemasons have that chant!!

    If KC is a high level mason, and in reality thinks lucifer is God, and as lucifer did, try to use God’s word against God for his own purposes because the word is living and is seed…well…maybe KC’s followers are actually turning their faces towards the devil and not know it? Like the frog in the water that gets turned up ever so slowly.

    All I know is at the beginning KC used to say he will never ask for money. He just believed, at that time, that God will stir your heart as is right before Him (The Lord).

    I know that things…got different over the years, yet…error was there all along. It is just he said things that were true, and as he got you to come along with trusting him…he would stick something in and keep moving along so your mind couldn’t sit on it a while.


    I’m just trying to figure out if it was just greed, or he just got into error and refused correction, or, as some say his mentor Oral Roberts was a freemason and there is something truly evil behind this all.

    Thank you for the dialog between you and me. I feel again that I have been encouraged by your replies and writings, and that I have grown from them.

    Now I will leave the verbal floor to others. I just also felt that insight into my struggle may help others with theirs.

    Thank you,


    • Kathy, you don’t need a tin foil hat…but then again, you could start a new styling trend! 😉

      I am impressed with the level of thought and analysis that you are putting to these things, Sis. You are doing a great job. Please keep it up!

      One of the key characteristics of a cult is that they discourage independent thought. They want people to turn off their brains, and to simply “absorb” the line fed to them by the leadership. Whenever someone chimes in and asks probing questions, or perhaps cites some sources outside of their cult circles that may not be 100% in harmony with their errant dogma, then the leaders get very upset and show their “disapproval” of such demonstrated intelligence. This is common among KCM/EMIC circles in particular, and “Charismania” in general. Brainless adherents with deep pockets are their favorite “followers” to be sure.

      (Note: In contrast, true ministers of God want you to think independently, though biblically; and they want you to be dependent upon the Lord and not overly relying upon them or any other fallible/mortal person. It is one thing to be taught by someone, but another thing entirely to have others do your thinking for you.)

      Nevertheless, when someone wakes up to reality, smells the proverbial “coffee,” and begins to read and think outside of those imposed boundaries, the errors and heresies of the cult become VERY obvious to them. They then face a decision: “Do I run away from this group now that I realize their errors and control tactics, or do I favor my friends therein and stay in the cult?” Those who wake up as honestly as you seem to have done choose the former, but too many choose the latter. So again, you are doing wonderfully Sis! I look forward to the day when you take the next logical step: Sharing these things with others so that they can come out of Charismania too! 😀

      I will have to hold off for now addressing your Freemason question directly, as I am pressed for time at the moment. However, let me note that I did address this during a recent online radio interview in some detail already. So if you pop over to my article The Radio Interview is Now Available On-Demand over at KennethCopelandBlog.com, you will see the embedded audio for that hour long program. If you listen to that, you will probably get the answer you seek now, plus an ear full on a few other topics as well. 😉

      Blessings to you Sis! You’re coming along great!

      Always in Jesus,


  10. Rich,

    I listened to your radio interview. All I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you. I loved the parts where you showed up on his door step with a box full of legal papers. You did not coward before him like others must have done for years. I loved when you said they proph-a-lie!

    God bless and protect you and your wife and family. I feel this what you are doing is of the Lord, and he is setting people free.

    God bless.

    • Kathy, once again you are a blessing. Thank you again for such kind commentary. I am really glad you were blessed by that show.

      I appreciate the prayers for blessing and protection, and pray the same in return to you too, Sis! Stay strong in the Lord and in the power of His might!

      Always in Jesus,


  11. Wow Rich!!! 2 years ago my old church held it’s 50th anniversary celebration. I really wanted to celebrate 50 years of the Word, until one of the guest pastors told us to hold up our hands and repeat after him, “Money is my friend.” This had too much resemblance to my BC life (it sounded like a really awful incantation) and I refused. Money is a tool. I can use it for good or bad. I don’t “use” my friends. So, I didn’t raise my hands. The looks I got…I’m sure you can imagine. Then we had some of the “good” IHOP folks come and see us. I watched my church skid completely out of control. Needless to say we are still looking for a church : ( The prosperity doctrine is killing the church.
    Paul makes a point in several of his epistles of stating that no one took care of him, he worked, so that the offering could be used for the poor, the widows, and the orphans. I know that now pastors have upkeep on the building, they have hospital visits, and most larger churches require that the pastor be available full time, but what happened to that work ethic that Paul extolled? And does the church really need that million dollar sound system?
    Thanks for being one of the wolf hunters! God Bless you Brother!

    • Eileen, you are a blessing. There are a few real precious nuggets of wisdom in your comment too. I especially consider this part profound:

      Money is a tool. I can use it for good or bad. I don’t “use” my friends.

      Very well said! To personify money as a “friend” is tantamount to that guy inadvertently admitting that Mammon is really his god, and not the Lord Jesus. Paul stated the matter quite clearly when he said, “Covetousness is idolatry” did he not? (See Colossians 3:5.)

      I agree with you regarding the lack of a good work ethic among ministers. In fact, the “vocational preacher” is too often nothing more than a hireling if he/she is saved, or a wolf in sheep’s clothing if they are not. Paul did not have a problem with full-time supported ministers, of course (see 1 Corinthians chapter 9). But his own passion was the Gospel and spreading its message, regardless of whatever donations came in. When in need, he worked and preached on the Sabbath in the synagogs. When well-funded, he preached everywhere he could–in public and private, in homes and on the streets–day and night tirelessly. Oh, would more preachers today have that same passion and conviction!

      I do know a few, thank God. So I am in good company with those I am willing to “hang with” in ministry. A few of us are formulating a plan to gather even more from around the world who have similar passion for Christ and fidelity to His Word. So please be in prayer for us in that regard. Such a thing could literally change the face of Christendom.

      Thank you for posting such a wonderful comment! I really enjoyed your testimony and insights.

      Always in Jesus,


  12. Rich and Eileen,

    Hi. The comment from Eileen realy blessed me for I have been strugling a little bit with something.

    See, in the past I gave up on the Copelands for I had spoke with you before. I then went back to them, and it seemed I got pulled right out by the hand of God and starting hearing what you had to say again. That is when I called and told them to take me off of their mailing lists, and my mother also. They refused to take off my mother until they spoke with her. I gave her the phone and got it done. The woman at KCM sounded miffed. That got to me because if it was me I would have had concern for the “sheep”, and I didn’t see concern, just being miffed.

    But that being said, I report the good and the bad.

    Another time that I had called them before that time, I had alarming symptoms in my body for 3 months. I went to the doctor. She spoke of pills I could take. I was back believing in KCM at that time, and I called the prayer line.

    I have been well in my body without any symptoms ever since that day! I am more well than I thought at the time I could get!

    I KNOW it was the PRAYER OF AGREEMENT and FAITH. I know that KCM was not the “magic bullet”, but rather obeying the word as I knew it to be, including the prayer of agreement. And I believe that the prayer partner on the other end of the phone line, (her name was Kathy too), I believe that she had faith.

    I know that I am NOT going back to KCM again. Like ministry watch says, KCM has an acountability rating of F.

    But to not give this praise report, I felt was unrighteous on my part. I report what I see, both the bad and the good. Let the saints, with the leading of God, find their way out of what is not of Him, and see the parts that are of Him.

    Because that is the confusing part to all of this for the ones who have been “followers” of KCM. Some good things have emerged for people out of this. But I feel they and I must realize that it was the Word of God working the good harvest and the faith of those who actually did believe in the Word; not the greed or wrong teaching. That does not do any good work.

    That is the way I have to look at the 700 club too. Because I know Pat Robertson is involved in some really wrong things. That is what confuses the saints sometimes….”How can good come out of bad?”

    Thanks again,


    • Hello again, Kathy.

      I can see your quandary, and can easily clear that up for you. The fact is this: There are some GOOD and faith-filled people working for Kenneth Copeland “Ministries (KCM), a.k.a. Eagle Mountain International “Church” (EMIC). Most of these are the “foot soldiers” on the other end of the phone when you call. These are typically sincere people, with a heart for God, and who mistakenly think they are working for a Christian ministry. It is the main leadership of KCM that is corrupt, and perhaps to a somewhat lesser degree, many of the supervisors who are over those good people on the other end of the phone.

      During my time around KCM/EMIC, I met many employees. Some were real jewels. Furthermore, since launching the KennethCopelandBlog.com redemptive project, many ex-employees of KCM/EMIC have gravitated to me and told me their heart-wrenching stories of trying to really minister to people while working under supervisors who were cold and callous (except when they put on a show for the outside world, of course). So I know firsthand that there are some good people there; and though many of them are deceived, I have learned through the ex-employees that many others were aware of the problems but yet stayed at their jobs for reasons that varied from individual to individual.

      Thus, when I address the “wolves in sheep’s clothing” within this website and over on the redemptive project, I am referring to the actual leadership of KCM/EMIC…and especially the Copeland/Pearsons/Neese families themselves, plus their top henchmen (and “henchwomen”). The folks on the other end of the phone are often people who simply do not fully understand what vipers they are working for, and thus, they may think YOU were being led astray by the teaching you have been exposed to through me and others on the Internet.

      So you were doing VERY well to get away from KCM and off their mailing list. I also think it is admirable that you wanted to give a little “good side” testimony about the heartfelt prayer of agreement from a KCM phone counselor.

      The key is to simply understand that the “foot soldiers” do not typically understand what is going on in the “NCO-club” (to continue the military metaphor, i.e. among the rather corrupt supervisors who want to curry Copeland favors) and especially within the “officer’s club” (i.e. among the top echelons of leadership of KCM/EMIC). The foot soldiers are often people who have real hearts for God and want to do something to promote the Kingdom of God…and just picked the wrong organization to do it through. They are also often “Copeland Kool-aid” drinkers, so they tend to have an overly high estimation of the Copeland/Pearsons/Neese family. That said, there is high turn over among the rank-and-file employee ranks as often these people come to work for KCM and figure out they have been employed by a snake pit, and then leave as soon as they can find another job.

      Does that help clarify things a bit for you? Thanks for popping back over, Sis. You are a blessing.

      Always in Jesus,


      • Yes, that does clear up things!! Clarity makes me very happy! It is like a right and a left hand clasped together that forms KCM. On the right the good people and the words of the bible that are spoken which are good. On the left the greed, wrong teaching, self-centeredness. These two clasped hands need to be seperated in the mind of one like me. I mean there is a lot on the internet about the “word of faith” movement being wrong. I know these televangelists for the most part are wolves. Some like Earnest Angley I think may be good for he had never ran with “the pack” and for good reported fruits in his life like the guy loved his wife so much that he never re-married after her very early death. He just put Jesus 1st and went on. But the comming against “word of faith” is a little hard on me.

        How else do we stand in faith but by taking up the sword, which is the word of God, and being as Jesus saying “Thus saith the Word” and answering each and everything with what the word says. We were told to take dominion in Genesis. I do not believe in witch craft type “incantations”. But how else is faith to be done besides puting the Word in our heart, speaking it out as Jesus did saying it is written, and taking athority over what does not match up to what the word of God reveals to us is His will.

        But isn’t this considered the evil “word of faith” movement? (I’m not saying you ever said that, but I have seen this aditude and I am just trying to see where my beliefs stand.)

        Ephesians 6:14 says stand therefore. I will stand on the word. I will speak the word. For if I don’t, then I don’t know how to stand. But some would say with that aditude I am telling God what to do and that is why the “word of faith” movement is evil in their opinions and I am acting like a witch.

        When I was a teenager me and some friends played with a ouji board. Learned some hard scary lesons. I do NOT want to be involved in witchcraft!

        But I know of no other way but to stand on the word.

        One question I do have is what to make of all of these ghost hunter, ghost adventure shows on tv. My mother keeps saying that if we go to heaven or hell when we die, WHY ARE THERE SO MANY EVIDENCES OF HAUNTINGS? I don’t know how to answer that. And having been one who followed KCM and now does not, and she knows why I don’t; I seem to have lost credibility as one who has any answers!

        I guess this is just my process of seeing what I truely believe in now.


      • I see two main questions within your last comment, Kathy: (1) What do we do regarding confession of God’s Word and etc., such as we were taught in the WoF movement? (2) What’s up with the “ghost” stuff?

        I’ll answer the second question first, however: Demons. Plain and simple. Familiar spirits which masquerade as dead persons with whom they were “familiar” in order to deceive those walking in darkness (i.e. the unsaved and the gullible). Study the Book of Revelation and you will see that witchcraft and paranormal phenomena is to become more and more common all the way until the Great Tribulation (and through it). It is no wonder either than worldly TV programs want to make money off of such things, now is it? 😉

        Now on the first: The Bible is still the Bible. Period. So when God told Joshua in verse 1:8 of that book, “This Book of the Law shall not depart out of your mouth, but you shall MEDITATE on it day and night that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein” He meant what He said. The Hebrew word for “meditate” there has nothing to do with the version of “meditation” practiced by eastern religions and cults. It means to “mutter to oneself repeatedly.” In other words, we are supposed to talk to ourselves…but God is saying here we are to talk His Word to ourselves specifically. Here is a good link to study the Hebrew on BlueLetterBible.org.

        This coincides well with what the Lord told Ezekiel to do:

        Ezekiel 3:1 Moreover He said to me, “Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.” 2 So I opened my mouth, and He caused me to eat that scroll. 3 And He said to me, “Son of man, feed your belly, and fill your stomach with this scroll that I give you.” So I ate, and it was in my mouth like honey in sweetness. 4 Then He said to me: “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them.

        So the primary thing we are to do with the Word of God is to “fill our bellies” with it (and according to Proverbs 20:27 in comparison with John 7:38 in the King James Version, that would mean our own spirits). We are to “feed” on God’s Word, and we eat with our mouths, do we not? Study of the word (including reading) is certainly a way to get Scripture into us. But “meditating” on God’s Word–which again, means to mutter it to yourself over and over again–is an extremely powerful way to work it down into your spirit. Note that the Bible refers to God’s Word often in “food” terms: Milk, bread, meat, honey, etc.. So the Lord is trying to get something over to us.

        In fact, the Jewish practice of “davening” is based upon these Hebraic concepts from the Scripture. You may have seen video of Jewish men rocking back and forth reading from their Torah’s (what we call the five Books of Moses at the beginning of the Old Testament). They are repeating those passages over and over to themselves when they do this. (Though let me note that the ritualistic way in which they do this goes somewhat beyond what the Lord meant, and thus, I am not encouraging you to rock back and forth while “feeding” on God’s Word…chuckle.)

        Furthermore, we all remember that Jesus spoke God’s Word to the devil in response to the three temptations with which satan attempted to snare Him. As God told Ezekiel above, you first get God’s Word into you, then go speak it. Jesus was the Word “made flesh, which dwelt among us” (see John chapter 1) so He was certainly qualified to speak His Own Word! However, hereby the Lord also gave us an example on how to combat evil spirits.

        Now, the Word of Faith people (and many “Charismaniacs” in general) go BEYOND these principles of Scripture, and start giving people non-Scripture “chants” to repeat. This is the psychological manipulation and “Charismatic witchcraft” that you have heard most credible ministers denounce. “Say this after me,” Leroy Thompson often says, “Money cometh to me now!” That is taking things into a different direction entirely than what the Lord was talking to Joshua and Ezekiel about. The wolves of the Word of Faith often base their congregational confessions upon poor theological principles that feed the greed and carnality of their audience. Thus, they are doing far more harm than good for those people. They also do this because it is a form of psychological manipulation to excite the audience (often with money-based agendas in mind).

        Consider even this excerpt from the good-sounding confession that the late John Osteen (and now his heretic son, Joel Osteen) had his congregation quote before every teaching, “…Today I will be taught the Word of God. My heart is open, and my mind is receptive. I am about to receive the indestructible, incorruptible, seed of the Word of God.” Now that sounds GREAT! So why would that be a problem? It pre-programs the audience to accept the subsequent teaching as if it is God’s Word…even if it is actually heresy! That is one reason why the people within that church’s large congregation still follow a known heretic today.

        Even a lot of the “worship” within many Charismatic circles use “chants” in unbiblical fashion. Consciously or unconsciously, they are essentially using mass hypnosis techniques that make their audience more susceptible to subconscious suggestions and manipulation. (In my “before Christ” days, I was trained in such things to a degree, so I know what I am talking about.) Even if the minister is unaware of what they are doing, the fact that they are doing it is evidence that they are operating by demonic spirits and not by the Holy Spirit.

        [Let me note here briefly also that ANYBODY who has used Ouija boards, or played occult games such as “Dungeons and Dragons” and many of those types of video games today, such as “Warcraft”; practiced “Neuro-Linguistic Programming” (NLP), hypnosis, or outright witchcraft (regardless of whether it was “white” or “black”); or practiced/participated in ANY OTHER such demonic thing; you need to repent of EVER doing such things, and renounce that past entirely, in order to cut off ALL ties to such demonic spirits and practices. Acts 19:18-20 demonstrates that principle nicely, and I admonish everyone reading this to do likewise. Consider also the warning of Deuteronomy chapter 7. Nevertheless, the FIRST thing you need to do is ensure you have been born again. And to that regard, I highly recommend you study my article The Supreme Value of Righteousness. That heartfelt article is designed to help you find full salvation through Jesus Christ.]

        So Kathy (and everyone else reading this) “run away” quickly from all the “Charismania” things you mentioned and which we discussed herein. Stick firmly to the Word of God. Let me encourage you also to study the downloads that I put at the end of this article, “When Wolves Remove Their Clothes.” Those three PDF downloads by Whitefield, Spurgeon, and Finney, will go a long way toward helping your thinking clear up even more.

        I hope this reply helped too! Blessings to you Sis! You are doing great.

        Always in Jesus,


      • Great teaching!! Made everything UNDERSTANDABLE which is what I have been needing! Just like teeth that have grown crooked need braces, well I was looking for those braces and just got them!

        Yes, I and everyone involved at the time did repent for using that witch board. That was an evil trip on the wild side I do not recommend to anyone! Been saved too. Nothing to fear about that. Just been looking for the braces to straiten out any crookedness!

        Yes, I started feeling that a lot of those confessions had been audiance manipulations too.

        This morning I woke up wondering was all of the stories I heard from these wolves all made up?

        I remembered as a kid one story that realy turned me on to God. A testimony of a woman Pat Hayes. I’m in wonder that I woke up remembering that blast from the past.

        Just for the fun of it I typed in her name and came up with a book of the account of it called, “Snatched From the Grip of Death!” I can’t prove that it was true. But it would be nice to know that not every testimony they told on KCM was just to get us to give them money.

        What you told me about the ghost stuff put it into perspective. Lord knows that when we were kids playing with the witch board it did not seem like passed on human spirits were contacted. All of us suffered the most horrible demonic dreams and being alert durring them without being able to move or cry out. Only crying out to Jesus made it stop. Also I had an experience of waking up and feeling “watched”. I looked out the window to see a huge man shapped figure looking into my window that was darker than the darkness outside! That is when I called a 700 club prayer person and they led me in repentance and deliverance, and told me what we got ourselves into! I guess I needed to remember all of that in the face of what my mother watches on tv. To remember this IS demonic!

        Thank you,

        Your teachings are always valued by me.


  13. Just one more thing because I am beginning to feel like “boy, I know I used to be shy but NOW I can’t find the off button!” But please Rich and everyone else understand I am just trying to process a lot of things about what I believed, and where my beliefs are now. I just had to share this one last thing.

    I was on you tube and I saw a video called “Pay Tithes or get SHOT!”–Creflo Dollar. It was by some one calling themselves seedsofgrace. I thought this will be something meant to be “comical”. But watch it to the end folks. I believed in these people BEFORE. All they did was take the bible and try to sell the Word of God and the Kingdom of God for profit! And people like me thought if we did not obey folk like them, we were making God angry with us.

    I had seen “cracks” in their “christian-ness” for years. I just needed someone to come forth and verify that my inward witness was not wrong.

    Thank you Rich for doing what you have done. And for you and everyone else who has listened and for putting up with me vocalizing my “process” of being deprogrammed, or seeing some light, or just being an encouragement to go with my gut on what I believed was right concerning things I just needed to know.

    I think I am done now. God bless.

    But please check out that video on you tube.

    • Oh, my! I agree with your assessment of the video. That is a well-done exposé of these frauds, indeed!

      I went ahead and linked your reference to the YouTube video within your comment above directly to that page. The video is just short of five minutes long in duration. So if anybody reading this wishes to watch it, please click upon the title that Kathy cited, and you will be taken straight to that posting on YouTube. (Note: If you are not a registered user, you may need to create an account in order to view the video.)

      Good find, Sis. Thank you for sharing that.

      Always in Jesus,


  14. Rich and everyone:

    Just something that helped me and might bless others.

    KENNETH AND GLORIA COPELAND” into a search engine.
    Written by Cedric Hohnstadt, August 2004″.
    What Mr. Hohnstadt speaks of is what I felt, things that made me feel further from God instead of closer to Him.

    Also put “Tom Killingsworth Kenneth Copeland” into a search engine. Mr. Killingsworth has personal experiences that may help you de-program yourself as I feel they have helped me to.

    • @Everybody: There is no need to use the search engines. I have added links to Kathy’s text above that will talk you directly to the websites. I did this in-part because one of the websites that popped up during a search was quite suspicious, and I thought it might be malware-infested. (That would NOT be Kathy’s fault, of course.) The two links I added above proved safe when I tested them.

      @Kathy: I am aware of Tom Killingsworth and his testimony, though we have not met. His experience is quite similar to our own in some respects, and to those of other people we have talked to as well. In other words, we can verify that the “M.O.” (Method of Operation) described therein is very accurate to how Kenneth Copeland “Ministries” (KCM) and Eagle Mountain International “Church” (EMIC) operates. They are VERY much a cult in many respects. Thus, in that sense, we can vouch for its content.

      I have not read all of Hohnstadt’s article, but my quick skim thereof would seem to suggest that I would agree with 90% or more of its content. So I considered it suitable for this thread. (Note: I pre-screen everything.) So thank you for providing that as well.

      Always in Jesus,


  15. Rich,

    Just got done with reading (Copeland’s Financial “Titanic” is Sinking Faster) and watching the Inside Edition video that was reported on in May and I didn’t even know about it until today.

    It just all reminded me of a dream I had back in February. The dream made a big impression so I wrote it all down. Then a month later I came across it and dismissed it as just a crazy dream inspired by too many sci-fi movies I watched in the past, and tore the paper up.

    But at the time of the dream I felt so sick to my spirit.

    I dreamed a white tractor trailer truck backed up to me and when it stopped, the rear door rolled up to open. (I felt at the time I was told that was “the reveal”) The one who rolled open the door was Kenneth Copeland dressed in jeans like a farmer. On the floor of the trailer was all these green pod looking things, “Yes, like in the movie invasion of the body snatchers, keep laughing” “smiles”. But these pods where smaller. Like as if they where to snatch men’s souls. I felt so sick to my spirit during the dream.

    Was it the Lord I ask myself or just some stupid dream inspired by a sci-fi movie that I have not watched in years?

    Back in February I was not thinking of KC being a crook and a wolf. Back in February I had fallen back into listening to him again.

    Back during the dream and for a while after I felt “shaken”. It felt real and such a “sick” feeling in my spirit at the time.

    Only later did I think it was just a nutty dream.

    But I can not help but wonder…..If KC becomes like a “caged animal” because he feels it is all falling apart….what will he “reveal” like in the dream?

    On the Inside Edition clip KC looks so old and kinda skinny and not well.

    When I 1st saw him on the clip, my old feeling of “Kenneth! I love him, he taught me many things” came up inside me. That child like part that just wants to have faith and love. But then the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach came up, the part that says, “not your friend, pal, see him for what he really is; you know better now.” Growing up I did not have many people to look up to, and I’ve been having to face it was now a few more less. (KC and all those he runs with)

    O well,

    May all of the truth finally come out. Some will point at the news and say see, there is no God, look even more fallen preachers since the Tammy Fae Jim Baker stuff! But others will turn inward and seek their hearts to find out about the real true God, and it is not money.

    Let God clean house and do away with all that is a farce. But I do not believe that God is cold, pushing the sinner to their knees all while screaming REPENT YOU WORM!!! Truth without love and warmth is not of God either. And I just don’t want the pendulum to swing from everything goes to only wear black and have your face look like a reprint of the book of Lamentations either! I don’t think that is God either. All you have to do is look at a puppy and know that is not how God is! That cruel harshness is the “other” extreme.

    I think this “house cleaning” will result in something good.

    Thank you,


  16. Rich and Donna,

    I don’t know if you will get this twice, because I lost what I was typing the 1st time. But I saw on google a listing of an actual shooting in 2005 at World changers church (Creflo Dollar’s place).

    You might find it interesting.

    I typed in “creflo dollar shoot” and it was like the 3rd item down on google after yours.

    It was on what was called Religion news blog. Under church shooting a mystry. By…

    Atlanta Journal-Constitution, USA
    Aug. 9, 2005
    Charles Yoo


    • Thanks for the find, Kathy. I added the link to your text above so that people can go straight to that story.

      It is certainly a sad thing, but one does have to wonder if the putrid spirit (and teaching) of Creflo Dollar added to the gunman’s deranged mental state. (And for those of you who do not already know about Creflo Dollar’s “Shoot them All Dead” tithing teaching, click here.) Only God knows, however. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.

      Always in Jesus,


      • Rich,

        My thought is as yours about whether the teaching had something to do with the man’s mental state. But moreover since he had at one time worked for the “church” and as a relative stated…(“He worshiped that man,”)…. my thought is also that the disturbed man perhaps had found out some truth about the man he had worshiped (Creflo), and it drove him to be in an agitated state; if the man had no prior mental illness.

        If Jesus is not your Lord all the way, then when these idolized men are seen for what they really are, well…fill in the blank.

        I wish that comments were allowed for your most recent story about the Creflo Dollar because it is interesting to see how people will handle this and what help they may be needing because their idol has been tipped over.

        One thing that made me a bit confused in the past about Copeland is that the word says something like no one can say Jesus is Lord unless the spirit of God be with him and Copeland said that all the time.

        People like me have really believed at one time in these folk, and I hope that no one’s hope in God gets “lost” or given up on over the truths that are coming out. The wolves talked a good game for those who just did not know the word any better. They must see there is light at the end of the tunnel, I am fine with what I have learned of the ones I used to look up to.

        Persevere! (Just a side note: Spell check would be great for this thing. It would help me to not so butcher the English language! “smiles”)


      • Howdy again, Kathy. Here is my quick reply:

        I hear where you are coming from with regard to the victim and the shooter. However, I think it is pointless to speculate too much over that other than what has already been said. He was a nut, and the other man was a victim. How much Creflo Dollar’s own depravity contributed to that horrible tragedy, nobody but God knows.

        You are correct: No person or thing should ever be “idolized” because that is the very definition of idolatry. It is a part of the fallen sinful nature of man to do so prior to his salvation, and certainly an ongoing temptation of the devil thereafter which must be resisted. (Note: The devil even tempted the Son of God to “bow down and worship” him rather than His Father, God…so it is a universal temptation.)

        The passage you referred to is in 1 Corinthians 12:3 and says, “Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.” The context is describing manifestations of God’s Spirit verses demonic counterfeits. ANY human being can naturally say, “Jesus is Lord” (even Adolf Hitler did that). Thus, Copeland and others like him have hidden behind an obvious misinterpretation of that passage in order to deceive people into thinking that their ministries were of God when they obviously are not. However, whenever Copeland has proph-e-lied by demonic powers, he has also blasphemed and spoken heresy…thus proving that he was NOT speaking by the Spirit of God at all.

        So in summary: Any human being can say “Jesus is Lord” without the Holy Spirit’s help…and ungodly people like Adolf Hitler have done so throughout history. The context of that passage was the manifestation of the Holy Spirit verses demonic spirits, and Paul attempting to help the Corinthians to discern the difference. I hope that clarifies things for you, Sis. 😀

        Lastly, I have been spell-checking your posts already (and those of others, in most cases) because it helps the translation engine to translate them properly. So you are good to go on that point. 😉

        Always in Jesus,


      • Thank you, and I am in the process of reading your above article link!


      • You are welcome, Kathy. Oh, and by the way: Thank you for the heads up about the Creflo video that we based that most recent post upon. You are the “friend” that Donna mentioned at the beginning who alerted us to that murderous heresy of his. May the Lord bless you for being a blessing to so many people through that resulting article. Thank you.

        Always in Jesus,


  17. Rich,

    No need to even mention me! All my desire is to get to the truth and to help set people free. I know my struggle, and I want to help others. When I was around 8, I prayed the sinners prayer with Ben Kinchlow (I think was his name) from the 700 club. A little older and I heard Kenneth Copeland speak of how God is a good God and not one out to beat you up. Things with my childhood, I really was desperate to hear. My heart was and is for God. But then I learned of things, and felt things in my own heart about some televangelists; and what was in their heart’s and why those things were so, and not just for greed purposes..the rabbit hole goes even more deep.

    My hearts desire is for the truth, and that the ones who seek God for real do not get discouraged and give up. For them to know and see that they will get stronger because now they have to seek God more with their own hearts instead of relying on a preacher to do all of the seeking of the scriptures and getting words from God for them.

    I thank you and your wife. I have needed what you have done, and there is still a wealth of your work to read that I haven’t even touched on yet. Your and Donna’s work on tackling that Creflo Dollar video was great spiritual food for me, reminding me of bible verses I needed to hear!

    And I thank the ones who made that video and put it up to YouTube for it to be found!

    God bless you and your family and the work you are doing and are yet to do!


    • Thanks, Kathy. Keep reading your Bible, the posts we have up, the materials we post of other theologians, and praying. The Lord will steer you through this time of adjustment and awakening just fine. Trust Him. 🙂

      Always in Jesus,


    • Well, that would be a welcome thing indeed if you truly loved us all now, Donato. However, in the light of the lack of love demonstrated within your last comments on my Ask Rich page (the comment that initiated the formation of this entire article here), then it would seem reasonable to test that thesis.

      Now in your initial post, you did NOT demonstrate any love toward the Copelands, his followers, or me, for attempting to hold both to biblical standards. Jesus said in John 15:13, “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.” However, you wrote simply, “[Whether] you are right or wrong. This is not the issue.” That revealed (as I detailed within the article above) that you had absolutely no care for the well-being of anybody, for you did not “lay down your life” to even research whether my allegations were true.

      Since I have come to the conclusion that Kenneth Copeland and his family are liars, frauds, and heretic “wolves” leading others astray for their own financial gain…then it would seem to be a very important thing for you to find out if what I concluded is true. If it is (even slightly) then this should raise an alarm in your heart about the Copeland family and their followers, and put you on a similar path as that which I am upon, trying to encourage them to repent. If I am WRONG…then to whatever degree I am, you should be concerned enough about me to prove that I am wrong, and hold ME to a biblical standard. THAT, Mr. Anzalone, is agape love demonstrated. Perhaps that is why the apostle, John, later explained:

      By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. (1 John 3:16, NKJV)

      Jesus said also, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24, NKJV). Obviously, “appearance” judgment is only a surface view of the situation. It takes some digging in order to get to the heart of such complicated matters as those we are addressing on KennethCopelandBlog.com and my own website here. Thus, you need to demonstrate “righteous” judgment by also demonstrating you have thoroughly reviewed all this material, before you bother commenting on it.

      In fact, one of Brother Hagin’s favorite passages from Proverbs to quote was 18:13, “He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him.” Unless you choose to dig around and then provide specific comments (with verifiable points), then we will have to remain suspicious of the “love” you have espoused on our behalves within your comment above.

      Let me add another point as well, but within a separate comment for space’s sake…

    • Mr. Anzalone, I would like to now draw your attention to John chapter 10 since you signed your comment above as “Pastor Donato.” Jesus said that true shepherds (using Himself as the ultimate example) are those who willingly “lay down their lives for the sheep.” This ties in nicely with the points I made within my first reply above.

      However, Jesus also pointed out that “hirelings” flee when the wolves arrive for supper. I could not previously classify you as a “hireling” because you did not “run away” but rather “defended” the wolves. Thus, I labelled you a “junior wolf” within this post because you displayed similar characteristics to the wolves I am exposing, and even went so far as to defend them. So in order to change our views of your alleged ministry, we would all appreciate it if you would show some genuine concern for God’s sheep.

      I assume that you have a “Statement of Faith” somewhere, since you claim to pastor a church. However, I could not find one on your website. Thus, do you believe in the infallible Word of God? Do you believe in the Trinity of God and Deity of Christ? What do you believe?

      If you do hold to sound biblical doctrines such as these, then why do you not promote/teach them on your website? (Note: I don’t mind that you do not have a “Statement of Faith” posted, because those tend to be abused. Rather, my concern is that there seems to be a lack of teaching regarding the core doctrines of Christianity.) How often do you teach such foundational doctrines to the “sheep” you have within your “sheepfold”?

      As I explained within my recent post, The Best “Pastor’s Handbook”, the two key purposes for pastors are to (1) win souls for Jesus Christ through a proper presentation of the NT Gospel (i.e. not that “prosperity gospel” heresy, that which is recorded in the Book of Acts and NT in general); (2) To disciple the “lambs” and “sheep” into full maturity in Christ. Do you do these things?

      Or are your sermons nothing more than motivational hype and alleged “faith” teaching that never teaches THE Faith of Jesus Christ?

      In short, while you are studying the materials we have posted in order to determine the validity of our concerns/allegations regarding the Copeland family, let me also exhort you to examine your own teaching and ministry as well.

      ARE YOU A WOLF? If you are not demonstrating yourself to be a true shepherd, that is probably the most likely scenario at present. Therefore, judge yourself and repent! Turn to the Word of God and get your foundations properly established. Then take your congregation into a pure faith in Jesus Christ and win souls for God’s glory. Then…and ONLY then…you will be demonstrating a full and true agape love for God, for His Church…and for those of us who loved YOU enough to hold you accountable within this article and commentary thread.

      Remember: Agape Love “manifest in the flesh” called people names, turned over tables, and even drove them out of the Temple with a whip of cords. It may not have been enjoyable for those on the receiving end of that demonstration at the time…but it was pure love demonstrated that was intended to lead them to repentance. Here is Jesus’ Own Words about such things:

      “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
      ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
      “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”
      (Revelation 3:14-22, NKJV, emphasis mine)

      Notice within the passage above that the Laodiceans sure had the “positive confession” thing down pat. They were “confessing” all sorts of good things about themselves…while ignoring the true issues of the heart and sound doctrines of the Faith of Jesus. Thus, they were in danger of being rejected if they did not first repent and then “overcome” their pride and carnality.

      May you likewise repent and overcome, as the passage above encourages. I would sure hate for you to go around pretending that you are a preacher…only to wake up one day in Hell and discover that you were one of the “Unconverted Ministers” that George Whitefiled warned about (see my post The Best “Pastor’s Handbook” to download his sermon, plus two other helpful downloads.)

      If you do repent and get yourself on track both spiritually and ministerially, then please blog about it on your own website and come back here to provide us the links so that we can see what God is doing in your life, your family, your church, and most importantly…your eternal soul.

      Always in Jesus,


  18. Rich,

    I remember years ago that Ken Copeland preached that God called him the “needle that was sent by God to wake everyone up”. He said something like that and it was, if I remember correctly, directed to the “religious clergy” who did not like his “name it and claim it” doctrine.

    I am glad to you and your wife have been sent by God to, for real, wake us all up.

    Mr. Azalone,

    I do not believe that you love me. You are the kind of pastor that I would have listened to in the past. Someone who loves me cares about me to be honest with me and himself. I don’t see that in you.

    There is a friend of mine, Mark. He feels he is saved. I don’t think so. He says, “We are all God’s children.” That is not true! Is Charles Manson? I say to him. Then I explain by the scriptures what I mean that we are not all of God’s children.

    That is such a nice loving saying isn’t it. (All God’s children) But that “nice” saying won’t save my soul even though it makes the speaker of such saying win awards in the hearts of many for saying it.

    You may risk being despised for speaking the truth. God knows I am nearly friendless at the moment because I have decided to not just go along to get along. I could have many friends if I just did. But I would not like me.

    Through scripture I am trying to show Mark how I see his favorite preacher, Joel Osteen, as such a likeable guy and motivational speaker indeed; but not one who loves him enough to tell him all he needs to know.

    I think I have now lost one of my few friends for being honest.

    You have a decision to make Mr. Azalone. Christ or the crowd?

    Which will it be?

    I have chosen Christ.


    PS: Rich, please pray for me. Every time I start getting close to God, the bizarre starts to happen. Is that normal in a Christian’s life to seem to get demonically attacked when they get close to God? Let’s turn what the devil means for evil into something God can turn around!


    • Kathy, thank you for your note. I edited the “PS” down to the minimum so as to respond for everyone’s benefit, but without embarrassing you.

      To begin, it seems that Mark is taken up in the heresy that my wife, Donna, calls, How to Go to Hell with a Positive Attitude. That article of hers will help you, but I also recommend that you read my posts here, How God Uses Heretics and The REAL Gospel. Those will deal with the issue at hand in great depth, and will help you see what a trap your friend, Mark, is in…and WHY he is in there too.

      To answer your closing question, however
      : YES. Whenever people start to come out of cults and heretical camps of teaching, the devil get rather frightened and upset about it. So he throws everything he can at them in the natural realm, while attacking their minds with thoughts intended to discourage them from pursuing their course towards God’s Truth. The reason he does this is that once a person gets fully established in sound doctrine and has shaken off the remaining shackles of his lies and heretical bondage, they tend to help others get free too! So he gets into a panic and tries his best to get them corralled back into the cult/heresy again so as to keep them under control and to prevent the liberation from spreading. (Ask me how I know…chuckle.)

      Thus, the bizarre stuff, temptations, and strange thoughts, all have a common source and goal: To get you off the Word of God and subdued. So resist the devil, and he will eventually flee. Once you get through this “testing phase” of coming out of those cult teachings, you will not only know joy and freedom in Christ like you have never known before…but you will then be the very danger to the devil’s schemes that he is terrified that you will become. Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might…stay in your Bible and in prayer…keep reading good teaching; e.g. not only my modest contributions, but also the works of Spurgeon, Whitefield, D.L. Moody, Bunyan (my favorite) and others from the past whose character and sound doctrine are known. There is a list of recommended preachers on the Ask Rich page that I posted for Terrence in the UK that you can use for a reference. Just “Google” around and you will find many of their works online for free.

      Blessings to you Sis. Keep the faith, keep studying, and keep questioning everything (especially those things from the prosperity-cult’s doctrines). You are going great.

      Always in Jesus,


  19. Rich,

    I humbly thank you. Especially my prayer concern and seeing that yes, it is not just me. I liked the part where you said, (Ask me how I know…chuckle.) God, I needed to hear that! It is just that I am reminded that the devil is for real and not just an intangible concept.

    Thanks for reminding me to resist the devil and he will flee. But some things hurt so bad, he really seems to know how to give a person a slap across the face some times. But that goes to show this is a real spiritual battle in this life, it is not just a game.

    Thank you,


    • You are welcome, Kathy. I edited down your comment again because you are putting too much personal info in them now. Please use wisdom about what you post about yourself online, even when not using your full name. Some things are just best left out of such public forums.

      If you have specific prayer requests, you can use our contact form for those instead of posting them within commentary. 🙂

      Be blessed, Sis.

      Always in Jesus,


  20. Hi Rich,

    Wow! So much information! I am having a difficult time digesting everything which is on your site/s regarding Kenneth Copeland and Co probably because, like most people, my family [especially myself] have grown up, so to speak, on the WOF but especially with Kenneth Copeland Ministries. My husband and I were first introduced to KCM in February of 1984 in Australia. We had been [gloriously] born again for just over 6 months and so hungry for God and His Word. We were [financial] partners on and off but partners in his teaching for most of these years.

    We have respected and loved them and their ministry. I am [now] embarrassed to say, at times, even defended them. My goodness, it amazes me how deceived we have been. How can someone sound so right when they are obviously SO wrong? I guess that is the ‘mystery of iniquity.’ Probably one answer is in

    2 Cor 11:13-15. However, it is a sober reminder to walk worthy before the Lord [Col 1:10] and a sober reminder for those who think they stand, to take heed lest they fall. [1Cor10:12]

    Of course, we haven’t fed solely on the diet of Copeland in our learning the Word of God. However, he and Gloria were someone we thought to aspire to – preaching the ‘uncompromised’ Word of God. Has all of this been a charade purely for the money? I can’t even comprehend the depth of depravity involved in this cover up. The deception is of such epic proportions.

    As difficult as it is to comprehend and to still come to terms with, I would like to commend you for the quality of documented evidence and the spirit behind the reason for the site. The body of Christ is entitled to full disclosure in the true spirit of ‘partnership.’ [2Cor 2:14]

    As for KC being privately and lovingly rebuked by Kenneth Hagin [Heb 13:17] then to cast aside his word of correction and admonition demonstrates the true spirit of KC. I would imagine that Kenneth Hagin also had the preceding verse in mind with the rebuke.

    Heb 13:16 [amplified] – Do not forget or neglect to do kindness and good, to be generous and distribute and contribute to the needy [of the church as embodiment and proof of fellowship], for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.[emphasis mine]

    However, according to the overwhelming evidence, the spirit of greed has taken hold and instead of blessing the body of Christ, they have managed to fleece them; all because of a massive distorted sense of self-entitlement. Instead of being a distribution centre for the body of Christ – KCM has become a storehouse for Ken Copeland & Co.

    The lies, greed, hypocrisy, cover up, intimidation and bullying are all fruit of a tree. The question is – what tree?

    Matt 12:33 Either make the tree sound (healthy and good), and its fruit sound (healthy and good), or make the tree rotten (diseased and bad), and its fruit rotten (diseased and bad); for the tree is known and recognized and judged by its fruit.

    This leads to how I ended up on your site. I had been seeking God for a much needed breakthrough in my [personal] and family’s life and sincerely asking The Lord what has been hindering us all these years?

    Following my time of prayer, I found myself googling on something which I believe has been a stronghold and hindering me in my life; through my family’s involvement with Freemasonry. Anyway, that’s somewhat of a long story, then for some strange reason I later googled Kenneth Copeland. I didn’t know why I did this, but it led me to what I now know as your site which initially, I thought was the personal blog of Ken Copeland.[chuckle] Consequently, I must admit, I wasn’t quite prepared for what I was to read.

    I now see the loving Hand of God directing me, in answered prayer. I have gone through the process of being angry, hurt, betrayed, confused and slightly bewildered at what confronted me on this site. I am now thankful to God for leading me to the truth, because I believe this key will truly set me free. The key I refer to is repenting, renouncing and breaking all ties with Kenneth Copeland Ministries. For we are to renounce [speak off] the hidden works of darkness. 2Cor 4:2

    We have renounced disgraceful ways (secret thoughts, feelings, desires and underhandedness, the methods and arts that men hide through shame); we refuse to deal craftily (to practice trickery and cunning) or to adulterate or handle dishonestly the Word of God, but we state the truth openly (clearly and candidly). And so we commend ourselves in the sight and presence of God to every man’s conscience.

    I am very heartbroken for the Body of Christ and for the damage caused to the Name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus. I will pray along with you that Ken, Gloria and family will publicly repent for their errors and become saved. My family will also pray for [your] Senator Grassley that God will give him wisdom and favour and protection in bringing about exposure to these hidden works of darkness.

    For as we know, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers etc [Eph 6:12] so therefore we must put the axe to the root of the tree as the fruits of darkness are just the outward manifestation of the [type] of tree.

    For what it’s worth, I strongly believe the ‘tree’ I referred to earlier which represents the [true] spirit behind the fruit, has its origins in freemasonry. In further googling, I discovered that Kenneth Copeland has been accused and associated with being a 33rd degree [closet] Freemason however; I have not yet found any proof. This is to be expected given the lengths freemasons go to conceal their secret involvement with this ancient practise of evil – the very root and foundation of which is none other than Babylon itself. Nimrod was accredited with building his own empire to reach God and as you know, God Himself intervened, causing them to ‘babble’ after which, they were scattered upon the earth. Babylon is alive and well and it has [widely] infiltrated the Church. The entire system of Babylon is a direct counterfeit of God’s. Without doubt, this system [Babylon] is represented by Freemasonry for it is a labyrinth of systems within systems. The very structure of this Babylonian system is designed to confuse [babble] those of us on the outside.

    Of course the Architect of this system is none other than the devil himself however, the hidden works of darkness must be exposed because the fruit of it will be apostasy [falling away] from the Love of The Gospel of Jesus Christ and replaced by the Love of Money [things].

    Thank you Rich for your courage in demonstrating the level of this great apostasy and I pray that we have all woken up in time. I feel so defiled and slightly humiliated that we were ‘hoodwinked’ [freemason term] for so long but thank God for His Kindness and Mercy which leads us to repentance in Christ.

    If this is the case, with Ken Copeland being a so-called ‘Christian freemason’ which is a contradiction in terms to say the least [and I believe it is] then the ground we have all sown into has been thorny [bad, unfruitful] ground [Mark 4:7] and that is why it hasn’t produced anything. Our seed has been choked and therefore unable to produce a harvest.

    I must admit, after being confronted with this deception, it is difficult to trust what is good ground or to at least, trust our own judgement in that area. Any direction in that area would be much appreciated please Rich. It begs the question: what are the fruits and how do you know what good ground is? It is sometimes impossible on face value alone. God knows!

    Needless to say, if you know of anyone who has solid proof of Kenneth Copeland as a freemason– it would be a service to the Body of Christ to expose this great evil and explain a lot of things as to his behaviour.

    Thank you Rich, for being uncompromising, in exposing this deceit to the Body of Christ, and indeed to the world. I can only imagine the hurt you and your wife must have had throughout this time. We pray that God will bless you and your family abundantly.

    The decision is now up to the Copelands. Let’s all hope and pray they make a wise decision to publicly repent and show forth ‘fruits of their repentance.’

    Also, may God have [Great] Mercy on Creflo Dollar for the sick and twisted comments he made in the video. I probably would never have believed it – it I didn’t hear it. Shame on you Creflo! Thank you Rich again, for waking us up to this disgusting behaviour! All of this for money? Who switched the price tags? Money for souls! I am very sure that Jesus Christ has not changed His stand on the price for a soul – His precious blood! What wickedness is being exposed in this hour.

    Rich, may God continue to give you grace, strength and protection as you fight the good fight. Remember, there are more for you than against you. Also, don’t forget, the devil roams around only pretending to be a lion. The one thing I’ve noticed about those who like to intimidate and bully is that they will ALWAYS back down if someone stands up to them. I pray that you will continue to be strong in the Lord and in the Power of His Might.

    Also, let’s not forget, Ken Copeland is not the only one with angels [if indeed they are heavenly angels] for all who are heirs of salvation have been given this heavenly privilege. [Heb 1:14].

    I apologise for the long post and thank you for your patience in taking the time to read it. I hope it blesses and encourages someone.

    With Blessings,

    • Gayle, that is surely a long comment…but a MUCH appreciated one as well! Thank you for the encouragement.

      A quick note to others reading Gayle’s comment: I have not edited it at all. All the bracketed comments & etc. are hers. Her spelling of some words also reflects a British nature, which is due to the fact that she is “down under” in Australia. That is the way they spell those words down there. So her spelling is NOT “American English” but rather “British English” (and after all…they do have “seniority” with that language, do they not?). 😉

      Gayle, blessings to you and your family. Again, thank you for the wonderful commentary. Please come back anytime.

      I will also re-post a comment below in a separate reply left by a brother under another article of mine. I believe it will bless you, as it ties in with what you wrote.

      Always in Jesus,


    • The comment below was posted under my How God Uses Heretics article, and I believe it bears repeating here in the light of Gayle’s excellent post above. May it bless all our RichVermillion.com readers as it did Donna and me:

      Lloyd Daniels says:
      June 18, 2011 at 9:20 pm

      That is good Rich!! Just an added thought here regarding these heretics as vultures. For a time these vultures fed us and we did eat. Consider Elijah at the brook Cherith “Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan. And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there. So he went and did according unto the word of the LORD: for he went and dwelt by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan. And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening; and he drank of the brook.”

      Just think what Elijah must have thought having God send such an unclean thing to feed him. But we all were unclean at one time yet the Father fed us even as He does the raven. But that was only for a season until God moved Elijah on and the Ravens no more came. Afterwards the greatest miracles thru Elijah were performed. There is a purpose in the journey God allows us to travel, as in your case, your deliverance will lead the way for others also. God orders all events of things, after the counsel of His will, to His own glory, His glory being the ultimate end of all his actings.

      So, many who initially felt led to be a part of the ministry of an ‘angel of light’ become paralyzed and cannot move on because believing to do so would prove they did not hear God in the first place. But that should not be so, because consider Jesus who was “led by the Spirit to be tempted of the devil, yet did not yield”. So in keeping ourselves in tune with His voice at all times, we are able to be taught of Him to discern what is true and what is false. We are, in truth, on a journey and must move when God speaks.

      Well said, Lloyd. Blessings to you sir.

      Always in Jesus,


      • Hi Rich,

        Thank you for your kind comments and encouragement particularly through the post from Lloyd Daniels – much appreciated.

        I must admit I hadn’t noticed my ‘British spelling seniority’ before but thanks for covering me on that point.

        I apologise for not responding sooner but I have been very unwell. God is always so faithful to me and ALWAYS causes me to triumph. Even though my body is weak, I know there are more for me than there are against me.

        I would just like to add a couple of points to my previous post, if you don’t mind.

        With reference to KC, a major concern to me is to establish the source of the tree from which this questionable fruit is being manifested; particularly regarding his unbalanced view on prosperity.

        I know it would help solve a lot of questions (for me) if it were to be revealed whether Kenneth Copeland is actually a Freemason. If indeed he is, he really should come ‘out of the closet’ and boldly admit this as he cannot serve two masters.

        Is there any way of knowing whether there is any evidence as to his alleged involvement as a Freemason? Perhaps that’s a question an interviewer should ask him.

        Also, it also dawned on me the other day, with reference to the laws of sowing and reaping. Instead of KCM and others asking for people to sow to their ministries, what a ministry it would be for them to actually sow to the least of the brethren and for them to believe for their 100 fold return.

        I’m not sure of the maths, but if they needed 10M perhaps they should sow 100K into their partners. The principle works by faith and love and love always gives. John 3:16 says that ‘For God so loved that He gave His only begotten Son.’

        I believe that KC made the comment that ‘it’s not your money – it’s God’s and you’re not going to get it.’ Well perhaps KCM shouldn’t be keeping it either or at least ‘storing’ it up for themselves. I always understood that we, as in the body of Christ, should be ‘distribution centres’ not collection centres for a few.

        Once again, thank you Rich for your boldness and love in exposing this error. May your efforts be rewarded in every way – especially for KC and his family as it is God’s kindness which leads us to repentance.

        I can now see why the beloved Smith Wigglesworth read nothing else but his adored bible. 🙂

        With every blessing, Always, 🙂

      • Gayle! It is so good to have you come back for another visit and to post another comment. You are always welcome, my sister. I am also very pleased that you are feeling better. May God’s healing grace rest upon you until you have experienced a full recovery.

        I will address the Freemason issue with you in a private email. So please watch for that.

        On the giving point: I agree with your point. In fact, let me “vent” some righteous indignation a little, and build upon your topic somewhat here for a few minutes…

        If one studies the Scriptures, the entire “good ground” concept that was pushed upon us for so many decades is not biblical as it has been too often presented. The “good ground” according to Jesus’ teaching was the human heart, and the “seed” was the Word of God. I know that Jesse Duplantis considers himself clever for coming up with the come-back, “Well, is money taught in the Bible? If yes, then the ‘seed’ of money is included in the Word, along with the ‘hundred-fold return.'” However, that is surely a MAJOR stretch of both Scripture and logic. His premise leaves out the fact that the “ground” or “soil” is still a human heart, and that is where the planting occurs, and from where the harvest will come. In fact, he ignored completely the “stoney ground” portion of that teaching which says clearly, “…the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful” (see Matthew 13:22; Mark 4:19). Thus, his “clever” argument is only another twisting of Scripture, not a justification for his errant doctrine.

        There is NO logical or biblical connection between that teaching and the “sowing” of money into the alleged “ground” of an alleged “ministry.” That entire teaching is completely unbiblical as it has been often presented, and is obviously intended to draw donations into their wolfish organizations (and away from the true Kingdom of God…which was the devil’s plan all along).

        Therefore, the “Laws of Sowing and Reaping” (as you and I, along with everyone else who listened to that tripe, were taught) are not FULLY biblical as taught either. Though there is SOME (emphasis on “some”) NT reference to “seed sowing” in regards to money (e.g. Galatians 6:6), it is very limited. The Bible’s emphasis from Genesis to Revelation of “seed time and harvest” is real physical seed, sown into real physical dirt, in order to bring forth a real physical harvest. The use of those terms as metaphors for sowing into the Kingdom of God is valid, for Paul did make limited reference to the same. Nevertheless, the EMPHASIS of the Bible is on…hold on….I’m going to use a four-letter word here…the emphasis of the Bible is in regards to WORK.

        The Bible most often refers to real farmers sowing real seed, for a real harvest, within ancient Israel’s agrarian economy (e.g. the story of Isaac sowing in famine). It is also an excellent metaphor for real business people (or investors) “sowing” real money and equipment (capital) into real business ventures. These passages have been over-spiritualized and overemphasized by money-hungry wolves (and those of us who ignorantly followed their examples for years in our own ministries, though our motives were not as sinister). Thus, this “seed time and harvest” doctrine is pure rubbish as it has been taught. (Note that clarifying closing statement, “as it has been taught.”)

        Again…there is limited legitimacy to its use as a spiritual metaphor for sowing into God’s Kingdom by “sowing” into the lives of God’s people (including ministers who teach the Word faithfully); however, not as it has been taught by the wolves. In truth, it is a far better metaphor both biblically and logically to business and investment than towards funding genuine ministry…but the latter will surely ensure that there is blessing on the former, when it is done from a right heart full of pure motives (i.e. not the greed propagated by the wolves).

        Anyway…I’m venting again. I apologize for taking off on this subject so strongly. I am not in the least bit agitated toward you, but only this topic. I cannot express in words how upset I am about the billions of dollars (perhaps trillions) that have been siphoned off from genuine ministry and expansion of the Kingdom of God by these wolves. How many God-fearing and people-loving pastors have had to struggle around the world during these decades? How many street evangelists have had to leave the TRUE harvest too often, in order to provide for their families and to pay their bills through secular labors? How many widows, orphans, and suffering poor, among the saints have done without, while these wolves have lived in lavish luxury? I cannot express in words my anger at this outrage…and I am VERY sure that the Lord is quite angry about it too…because He said that He is:

        For among My people are found wicked men; They lie in wait as one who sets snares; They set a trap; They catch men [i.e. through the “bait” of greed, or an appeal to the person’s sense of “need”].
        As a cage is full of birds, so their houses are full of deceit. Therefore they have become great and grown rich. They have grown fat, they are sleek; Yes, they surpass the deeds of the wicked [i.e. even more than those who have never professed faith in Jesus Christ];
        They do not plead the cause, the cause of the fatherless; Yet they prosper, and the right of the needy they do not defend [i.e. they could certainly afford to help people in need, but they do not…except in small ways, for pretense sake].
        “Shall I not punish them for these things?” says the LORD. “Shall I not avenge Myself on such a nation as this?”
        An astonishing and horrible thing has been committed in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests [i.e. five-fold ministry gifts] rule by their own power; and My people love to have it so.
        But what will you do in the end? [i.e. when such people “reap” the “harvest” on the “seeds” of judgement that they have “sown” to their own destruction]
        (Jeremiah 5:26-31, NKJV, bracketed notes and emphasis mine)

        Note: The “Laws of Seed Time and Harvest” surely DO work for, “whatsoever a man sows” (to include iniquity) “they shall reap” (to include judgement, see Galatians 6). These idiot wolves expect “money’ for their seeds of iniquity…and surely, they have “reaped” some through their deceit and manipulation of the Bible as they prey upon the greed of their hearers (or in some cases, the urgent sense of need among honest hearers, who just need a financial miracle). Yet, these wolves do not “get” by “giving”…they “get” by deceiving…and there IS a BIG difference.

        So their judgment time is coming. Oops…I just caught myself venting righteous indignation again.

        Thanks again for the note, Gayle. I hope it was a blessing to you (and others reading this) in some way. I’ll drop you an email soon.

        Always in Jesus,


      • Thank you Rich for your prayers; I am beginning to win yet another battle, although I have not quite won the war with regards to my health…..YET! 🙂

        God is SO good to me and He has wrought many miracles in my life – even giving me two beautiful, healthy and amazing children (who are now 20 and 15) when all hope was lost. Both children, according to my Specialist, are recorded in the medical journal as bona fide ‘miracles.’ That’s a whole BIG story! One of which I never get tired of telling because it demonstrates the goodness and love of God. He loves to show up when all else is considered hopeless and He makes the impossible – possible.

        I also know that what God has begun -He will finish for His Glory. (Phil 1:6) I am in GOOD Hands and I value your prayers very much.

        On the subject of ‘giving’ Rich, I fully appreciate and agree with your passionate reply to the distorted and dangerous teaching we have been subjected to on ‘Sowing and Reaping’ and/or Seedtime and Harvest. Within these ministries, reducing the ‘seed’ solely to money and their ministry to the ‘good ground’ is incomprehensible when you stop and think of it. I think their ‘system’ of partnership is called the ‘power of one’ – themselves! Another way of expression could be – ‘the money is in the list.’

        Thank God for the heavenly ‘shaking’ which is going on – waking us up to TRUE ‘Righteousness.’ Along with you, I am also (I believe righteously) angered at the blatant fleecing of so many (hard working) people. Some, legitimately hoping for a financial miracle and some trapped by the deceitfulness of riches; hoping for a get rich quick scheme- cloaked (and soaked) in (false) righteousness. Each category needs loving deliverance from bondage – not more bondage.

        Deception is an interesting study. We have all been subjected to it in some form or another. Some of us have been deceived and perhaps, unwittingly have also deceived others by that which we were deceived. However,the great difference to me is the motive, especially by whom the offense came.

        Jesus said – Luke 17:1 ‘Then He said to His disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!

        Jude 1:8-12 is even more graphic when describing apostasy.

        I wonder whether ‘speaking evil of dignitaries’ such as your Senator Grassley, qualifies for this scripture. My bible says, we don’t wrestle against flesh and blood. (Eph 6:12). Jesus Himself never came to His own defense against the flesh and blood men who accused, punched, spit and crucified Him. He loved them and prayed for them ALL – even while he hung on the Cross. My goodness, this was GOD Himself and even He didn’t mount a ‘holy war’ against people even though he could of called on 10,000 angels to wipe them all out. He did however, make a spectacle of the principalities and powers in heavenly places (Col 2:15) – His real enemies.

        What a shame to witness this behaviour from a ‘minister’ of the gospel. Yes, I think we are witnessing the ‘way of Cain’ along with the error of greediness of Balaam for profit. (Jude 1:11)

        Speaking of the ground (heart) it is not difficult to discern what has been planted in a person’s heart – even when it appears to be disguised by the ‘word’ because the mouth will always reveal its deposit when placed under pressure – everytime (Luke 6:45).

        When someone uncovers shame there is always (angry) explosion and cover up. That’s when we should recognise the depth of our sin and repent so that we can be healed and restored to the abundant life in Christ.

        Rich, there is definately no need to apologise for your venting. I am right with you brother. People’s souls are at stake here. Where is the ‘TRUE’ love and compassion for the lost, widows and orphans?

        How easy some people make it for the devil to deceive. Money, wealth, riches are poor substitutes for the Love of God. Perhaps these ministers should read up on the definition of agape love. They will find a demonstration of it in John 3:16 – For God SO loved, He gave…..now, that’s a sermon!

        No, I believe Babylon is alive and well. Let’s come FULLY out of this apostate system and return to our FIRST Love and GIVE ….. and in the ‘giving’ we don’t have to worry about the ‘getting.’

        There is so much in this topic to comment on – it could take on a life of it’s own I’m sure. We should learn from the errors of others and take heed that we ourselves walk circumspectly before the Lord.

        If I can encourage anyone who has been confused and hurt by this distorted teaching, I would like to refer to Jude yet again.

        Jude 21 – Guard and keep yourselves in the love of God; expect and patiently wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)–[which will bring you] unto life eternal.


        Jude 24 – Now to Him Who is able to keep you without stumbling or slipping or falling, and to present [you] unblemished (blameless and faultless) before the presence of His glory in triumphant joy and exultation [with unspeakable, ecstatic delight]–

        I didn’t intend to write so much – I just wanted to say a quick ‘thanks for your reply.’ 🙂

        So, thank you Rich! Bless you and your family abundantly. I am looking forward to receiving your email 🙂


      • AMEN!!! (What else can I say after such a good sermon?) 😀

        You area a blessing, Gayle. Thank you for “venting” with me. 😉

        Always in Jesus,


  21. I’m so glad I found You..Rich, I AM very sick to my stomach after the June 2011 video on K Copeland..An airport, 4 planes, 7 million home on and on.This blows my mind and I’m angry..I’VE never sent $$ to him or the others..I used to think Jessie D was OK..What can I do..I’m not married and a young senior..I’d like to spy on these people and Bust them..However, I do not know what to do..Do You need help??..Thank You for You and Your Wife..God Bless You..You are a Brilliant Young Man..Sincerely CN

    • Mrs. CN,

      You are a blessing. Thank you for kind comments and encouragement. Donna and I receive your well-wishes wholeheartedly. May God’s blessings also come upon you, our dear sister.

      Always in Jesus,


  22. Amen! I have been reading all of these comments. This is a little off the main subject, but have you read “I Was Wrong” written by Jim Bakker? He had a real revelation while he spent 5 years in prison, and Jesus turned his life around. He repented of what he had taught on his TV program. He is (or was) still in the ministry, but he no longer seeks the fame that once was his. A very interesting book.

    • Kaluis,

      Thank you for the “Amen!” and commentary. I have not read Jim Bakker’s book personally, but I am familiar with the story of what happened to him.

      My biggest concern regarding his present spiritual state is the fact that he is still close friends with Kenneth Copeland and his family (though they both keep that to a low profile). Kellie Copeland Ward Kutz Swisher and her third husband, Stephen, are regular guests on his program. Thus, much can be deduced about Jim’s present character and integrity by the company he keeps. I am mindful of the Scripture wherein Peter (by the Holy Spirit) writes:

      For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” (2 Peter 2:21-22, NKJV)

      If you give 2 Peter, 1 John chapter 3, and Jude, detailed examination, and compare the truth of those books with Jim Bakker’s present behavior, you will have to concede that it is entirely possible that Jim was never born again. I certainly hope that he has been, and that perhaps he is simply duped (i.e. by the Copelands and others).

      I do agree that the premise of Jim Bakker’s book makes one hopeful that he is truly born again and has learned the error of his ways. But I have a hard time holding out Mr. Bakker as an example of God’s saving grace as long as he is still showing “wolfish” behavior to some degree—and hanging out with a pack of wolves besides.

      Nonetheless, thank you again for your input and hearty “Amen!” to this article. Come back anytime.

      Always in Jesus,


  23. Thanks for your blog – a couple of questions

    Just watched the believers conference and they met their budget on Friday night
    There is 950 salvations from the teams going out

    So my question is how does Satan cast out Satan?

    One point I don’t see being discussed is Mr Copeland’s belief that Jesus
    Died spiritually and was subject to Satan for those 3 days in the grave

    That is heresy

    So my question is if Mr Copeland’s ministry is so evil or wolf in sheep
    clothing how has it existed for over 42 years?

    All I read here is rumors and innuendos – sounds a bit like some are jealous or bitter

    Granted that sister asking about her 54 year old brother has a valid question however God has blessed us with prosperity and healing

    So to balance things you do raise good questions and I don’t follow him-my wife does I still have to say is look at the fruit – healings,deliverance and Satan exposed in his messages except of course the dying spiritually item

    I listen to Keith Moore and find a more balanced message and pray he stays humble and sincere in the Lord

    One thing is he sat directly under K Hagin

    So I believe the truth will come out – maybe get those two people who were fired on here


    • Hello again John! Thanks for popping by to read the blog, and for asking your questions. I will be happy to address your main concerns, point by point.

      However, since I will have to rearrange their sequence so as to fit a logical order suitable to my reply, I will first cite your comment/question in bold italics, and then post my response immediately after each one.

      Just watched the believers conference and they met their budget on Friday night.: It is interesting to note that in past conventions, KCM usually announced that their budget was met around Tuesday night, or Wednesday night at the latest. So the fact that it took until Friday night to announce that same milestone is further proof that Copeland’s Financial “Titanic” is Sinking Faster now.

      One point I don’t see being discussed is Mr Copeland’s belief that Jesus died spiritually and was subject to Satan for those 3 days in the grave. That is heresy.: You are correct that Kenneth Copeland’s version of the Apostle Creed’s doctrine that “He descended into Hell” is heresy. However, it is just his version that can rightly be considered as such because many of the early church fathers believed/taught that core doctrine. Later, the Reformers (Calvin and Luther in particular) taught the same thing, and John Bunyan (author of Pilgrim’s Progress) did a marvelous treatment of the subject in his theological book, The Doctrines of Law and Grace Unfolded.

      That said, Copeland makes some subtle, yet substantial, “changes” to that doctrine. As you pointed out already, the addition of Jesus “dying spiritually” and needing to be “born again in Hell” is heretical. These points deny the Deity of Christ, because God cannot be “born again.” Furthermore, it humanizes Jesus beyond Scriptural boundaries, because it denies His being “God manifest in the flesh.” Note: These changes are actually compatible with Freemason Deism, and thus, provide further proof that Copeland has likely been a Freemason all these years.

      Another heresy that you did not mention is the fact that Copeland’s so-called “prosperity gospel” is actually a full-blow heresy. Note this apropos excerpt from what I wrote over on EconomicTheology.com within my article, Decline of the Prosperity Gospel:

      Regardless, let me clearly state my position on these matters. To begin, I differentiate between the typical “prosperity message” and the heretical “prosperity gospel.”…SOME of what is called the “prosperity message” is biblical, and helpful, but overall it is very shallow teaching….

      ALL of what is called the “prosperity gospel” is heretical and dangerous. The moment ANY minister elevates their “prosperity” doctrine to “gospel” status, they have stepped over into pure heresy. The Spirit of God warned us within Galatians chapter one of the Bible that if anything was offered as a “gospel” that differed from that given by the apostles, it was really “not a gospel” and the one propagating it would be damned (Galatians 1:6-10)…

      Any honest review of the Book of Acts within the New Testament will provide several examples of sermons preached by the apostles after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. NOT ONE of these includes anything about God enriching a person financially or materially—or even anything about God paying their bills. All the apostles confronted sin within their Gospel presentations, and then warned of a coming judgment. They then admonished their listeners to repent of all sin and idolatry, to put their faith in Jesus Christ as their sole source of salvation, and then to live according to biblical standards thereafter….

      Pop over to that post to read the rest of the excerpt within its full context.

      There is 950 salvations from the teams going out.: Really? How can a heretic and his “ministry team” lead so many people into a genuine salvation experience? They cannot. If anyone fills out a “card” or raises their hand, KCM counts them and advertises their “success.” However, heretical cults are NOT typically successful and generating genuine Christian converts who are truly born again (though I have heard of that being done by accident, even by Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses…chuckle). I cannot accept that number as valid, for how can we truly “count” 950 people and certify they were ALL born again? I would never be so stupid as to assert that everyone out of a group that large had genuinely been saved by God’s grace. So in the case of Copeland where he preaches a “different Jesus” (as you have noted yourself), I consider that number completely false and absurd. Please to not believe him. He is a documented liar, and so are the people who work for him

      So my question is if Mr Copeland’s ministry is so evil or wolf in sheep clothing how has it existed for over 42 years?: That is a very good question. Let me ask a related one, however: How could wicked kings in Judah and Israel reign for 20, 30, 40 years, or more? In fact, how could Manasseh, the most wicked king that EVER existed in ancient Israel, reign for FIFTY YEARS? (Note 2 Chronicles 33:1) Thus, you asked a good question…but I do not have an answer other than to point out that the Bible says the same things about other evil people too.

      Let me add, however, that such a point constitutes a logical fallacy, because it is irrelevant to the overall point which you attempting to make (i.e. that Copeland’s longevity in “ministry” is proof he is legitimate or blessed by God). By mentioning that, I do not mean that fact to be an insult at all, but merely intend it to be a point of discussion. It is not a valid point that in the least bit addresses whether Copeland is a genuine minister of Christ or not. Such “proof” is really no proof at all. In fact, it is not really an objective proof of anything…other than perhaps that God allows wicked people to “hang around” until He is decides to judge them.

      Take some time to thoughtfully study my article How God Uses Heretics and you will soon see that God has a divine purpose for spiritual “wolves” just as He does for the real wolves which prowl around preying upon the sick and weak animals out in the wild. I believe that will put things into a much brighter perspective for you as to how God could allow Copeland to “prowl” for 42 years unhindered (except for a few honest preachers trying to warn the flock of God to be wary of them).

      So my question is how does Satan cast out Satan?:
      Satan does not, but Jesus’ statement/rhetorical question does not apply here. Copeland is a heretic, and VERY likely has always been a Freemason. So how can he cast out the same devil whom he already serves? Witches sometimes mimic exorcism, but in reality the person they are “helping” gets worse for the encounter. Since Copeland runs a cult, I would be so bold as to state that the same thing is often the case with regard to KCM. (And if you read some of the emails I have received from foul-mouthed Copeland supporters, you would probably think the same thing too.) However, I will address this point again further below, and will refrain from further comment for now.

      All I read here is rumors and innuendos – sounds a bit like some are jealous or bitter.: Dictionary.com defines innuendo as, “an indirect intimation about a person or thing, especially of a disparaging or a derogatory nature.” It then defines intimation as, “to indicate or make known indirectly; hint; imply; suggest.” I cannot speak for every person that commented in this thread, of course, but for myself: I really do not “hint” about much, but I generally come out quite openly to discuss these issues. 😉

      Rumor, however, is defined as, “1. a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts: e.g. a rumor of war. 2. gossip; hearsay.” Again, I cannot speak for all the people who commented herein: But we typically document our allegations quite well over at KennethCopelandBlog.com with downloads, videos, audio clips, documents, citations from KCM materials and websites, etc. Though I am somewhat vague about some of our sources (to protect our whistle blowers), there is VERY little on that website that can possibly be construed as mere “rumor.”

      On the other hand, testimony is defined by Dictionary.com as:

      1. Law. the statement or declaration of a witness under oath or affirmation, usually in court.
      2. evidence in support of a fact or statement; proof.
      3. open declaration or profession, as of faith.

      I am hoping that you are not suggesting that people with direct firsthand knowledge (or personal experience) regarding the Copelands should NOT make those known, as they try to warn people about these wolves. Note how the Bible explains how the use of testimony is supposed to be used in determining the character of miscreants:

      Deuteronomy 19:15-17: One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime, the two people involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time.

      Ephesians 5:11: Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

      The “crimes” here where Copeland is concerned include: Heresy, blasphemy, fraud, lying, and bearing false witness against others (e.g. Senator Grassley), & etc. So are people not to testify and warn others that they may become victims of such crimes, should they associate with Copeland and/or his alleged “ministry”?

      It would certainly not be reasonable, nor biblical, to say that is is “love” toward the victims when hiding the sins of someone who habitually practices such harmful sins. Thus, I cannot speak for the veracity of the content of every person in this thread…but I can certainly vouch for them that they have a biblical right and responsibility to speak out when they know such a dangerous wolf is on the prowl. Anything less would be hatred toward the sheep who wind up as “dinner” on that wolf’s plate.

      …I still have to say is look at the fruit – healings, deliverance and Satan exposed in his messages…: Those are NOT fruit. In fact, the Bible never mentions those as “fruit” upon which to base an analysis of the genuineness of any ministry.

      Did Kenneth Copeland and his family do those things, or did God? Did Copeland’s messages reveal those things, or God’s Word? I hear where you are coming from, but I also know that those who were genuinely blessed, healed, or delivered, were so because they put their faith in God and His Word…not because they put their “faith” in Kenneth Copeland.

      To be sure, Kenneth Copeland HAS taught some good things through the years. I have learned MANY good things from him. However, Copeland himself has often told stories about how unsaved charlatans during the 1950s put up tents like Oral Roberts did, in order to “fleece the flock” and make money. Believe it or not, some people (according to Kenneth) were actually saved and healed in those meetings, because they had memorized other people’s sermons and were preaching them. So who did the miracles and saving? God did.

      In fact, the Bible talks about Balaam the prophet, who actually gave true prophecies about Israel before the king of Moab (see Numbers chapters 22-24, and 31:8; and Deuteronomy 23:4-5). But was he a “true prophet” in the sense we understand that term to signify? Note:

      Joshua 13:22 (NKJV): The children of Israel also killed with the sword Balaam the son of Beor, the soothsayer, among those who were killed by them.

      2 Peter 2:14-16: …They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

      So the Bible refers to him as a “soothsayer” (i.e. demonic medium) and as a “prophet” (i.e. a person with the “gifts and callings of God” with are “without repentance”). In other words, God put the prophetic gift in Balaam, and even used it for His Own glory on one occasion (see the Book of Numbers citations). But Balaam was a lover of money, and channeled demons most of the time. Does that sound like someone we should follow? No. So to whom should we give credit for the “good things” that came from Balaam’s “ministry”? Obviously, to God, and not to the man.

      So who should we credit for the “good things” that have indeed happened through the years around KCM? I believe that God alone should get that glory. I am thrilled that you (and so many other people) can attest to being healed or helped in some way. But give credit to where it is properly due: To Jesus Christ.

      Please keep in mind in closing that there is NOT ONE Scripture in the Bible that mentions charismatic personality or miracles as being a full basis upon which we should judge ANY alleged ministry. The pastoral epistles of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus list lots of qualifications for ministry…and integrity and purity are the two elements most obvious. There is not one mention of miracles as “qualifications” for ministry in those letters.

      In fact, the Bible actually says that a demonically-inspired false prophet can do miracles in order to lead people into heresy and apostasy. Jesus Himself said, “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24, but note also Mark 13:22, Deuteronomy 13:1-3, and Revelation 13:11-17 as well). So look for integrity and godly purity of character within the “fruit” of any ministry that you are judging, plus doctrinal content. However, when the ministers have heresy in their teaching (as you have noted) and/or are documented frauds liars…just run away.

      Well, I hope my lengthy response was helpful, and that you can detect the sincerity and love in which it is intended. Please look up the Scriptures I have cited, and ponder these points for a while before replying. However, I do invite you to come back and give us your thoughts after chewing upon all of this for as any good Berean Christian should do (see Acts 17:10-12).

      Always in Jesus,


  24. Thank you for your encouragement and blessings Rich. Keep fighting the ‘good fight.’ Amen!

    Whoops! I have just noticed a ‘typo’ in my email – which I have just corrected. Apologies for any inconvenience.

    Every blessing,

    • Thank you, Gayle. Hey, I did email you already, by the way. So please respond to that correspondence, or look for it in your SPAM filter (in case it was flagged for some reason). 😉

  25. Hi Rich, your article makes perfect sense! Thank you for operating this blog. One of the main characteristics of a wolf is: it considers a sheep as a food source instead of serving it. Kenneth Copeland and his blab-it-and-grab-it word of faith ilk consider their followers as resources and exploit them. Therefore portraying these kind of mammon loving preachers as wolves is accurate!

    Keep up the good work!


  26. Hi Rich,

    I just had a question. I think I read somewhere that you had been a follower of Kenneth Copeland for 17 years. I know that there have been things about the ministry that had alarmed me to the point that I had felt it was a cult and I needed deprogramming from it. There was evidence against him. And I have seen things your way for quite a while.

    But there is evidence for him also. He is still preaching and still standing. Perhaps he has repented. His sins are between him and God ultimately. And does anybody think that, even when he would have found himself in the wrong, that he would publicly repent before the man who has publicly attacked him and told him to repent? I just am thinking now a days that things should have been done differently.

    You could have gotten out there and preached against the Charismatic movement and what you feel is it’s abuses and the “whole” of it’s preachers if you feel that is what is right before God. But to publicly come against one man that you were with for 17 years does make it seem that you had an axe to grind and wanted to branch out on your own and make a name for yourself by using another man and his name and ministry as a stepping stone. Perhaps by blowing things out of proportion and self righteously using the sins of this man and his family against him. Yes, he dropped the ball many times like I am sure we all have.

    But let me tell you something. Quite recently someone I love had a physical attack which had lead to his depression and my fear for his life and thoughts of my own of giving up on him and life in general and just not caring anymore.

    But so many times, even though I have not been listening to Mr. Copeland for a long time, so many of his teachings along with the Word of God came up in my spirit as instruction as to how to handle this battle! Many of Mr. Copeland’s teachings rose up inside of me and got me through. Things are better now but I am not “taking my foot off of the head of the serpent”-yet another teaching of Copeland. Nothing that you ever said came up in my spirit and helped me be strong in the Lord and the power of His might. But the teachings of the one you have come against did!!!

    Your work came out at a time that many were questioning things because the world was changing and some of us questioned what we believe and who we believe. The rest already had no regard for this way of looking at faith in the 1st place.

    All I know is he would seem financially wealthy enough to leave this all behind at his age. But he is still standing. He was on fire today in his preaching. He is a human used by God. Sometimes we all get off base and must pull ourselves back. These preachers, even you, are human and can get off base.

    The main question I have is why did it take 17 years for you to leave the Charismania and the preachers that preach it.

    Now I know that you may edit this which I have sent to you. And I feel I have been blessed by our dialog before as I searched for what I believe. But please don’t edit my words. This evidence also must be considered by all. To not allow it would be making things look like you are trying to control the thoughts of others.

    Thank you.

    • Howdy, my Friend in Rochester!

      You have an interesting set of questions and statements above, and I also notice that you have posted a second comment that is similarly quite lengthy. However, for time’s sake, I will only respond to this one for now as my schedule is quite full. It may be a few days (or even a week or more) before I can even read your next comment, much less get around to replying (if I even deem that appropriate). So we’ll just stick with this comment of yours for now…

      Let’s dissect your note about Kenneth Copeland above, point by point, in a logical order. I will do this within four replies, in order to keep them more succinct and to allow you (and others) to post other comments/replies more topically. BTW: These may seem blunt at times, but I will explain why I wrote these this way before I am done.

      Your First Point:

      Perhaps he has repented. His sins are between him and God ultimately. And does anybody think that, even when he would have found himself in the wrong, that he would publicly repent before the man who has publicly attacked him and told him to repent? I just am thinking now a days that things should have been done differently.

      My Response:
      The Bible says clearly that it is Kenneth Copeland’s responsibility to reconcile with (1) Those he has wronged personally; and (2) Those he has wronged publicly. Here are a few passages to prove my point:

      “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.” (Matthew 18:15-17, NKJV)

      Within the Words of Jesus above, it is clearly implied that the one who wronged his brother should repent DIRECTLY TO his brother. “If he hears you” indicates that they reconciled privately. If that did not work, then the wronged brother should bring one or two others to listen to the dispute. Again, it is implied that IF the arbitrators AGREE with the wronged brother, then it is the responsibility of the offender to repent DIRECTLY TO the one he wronged, and to make it right.

      If that fails, the the ENTIRE CHURCH (in the Greek, ekklēsia, the “assembly” i.e. the ENTIRE population of that local church, and NOT merely the leaders alone). Thus, clearly it is implied again that the offender is being exhorted by all the Christians to make things right DIRECTLY with the party he wronged, and that it is his responsibility to do so. And if you want additional witnesses that my analysis is correct, then look at what else Jesus said DIRECTLY to those who have wronged another:

      Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. (Matthew 5:23-24, NKJV, emphasis mine)

      And James also adds within his epistle:

      Confess your trespasses to one another… (Matthew 5:23-24a, NKJV)

      Thus, your reasoning that somehow Copeland is justified in some way by “repenting privately” without addressing the fraud that he committed against me (and also publicly, using my name) is completely contrary to Scripture.

      (Note: For the benefit of others reading this, who may be unfamiliar with our redemptive efforts to date in calling on the Copelands to repent, let me note here that I DID confront them privately about these matters before taking matters public, which you can read about HERE. Furthermore, the biblical foundation of our public rebuke effort is explained in detail within two posts on that same website: The Biblical Basis for this Public Rebuke (i.e. of Kenneth Copeland) and The Convenient Doctrines of Preachers in Sin.)

      This also applies to the public sins the Copelands have committed through their heresy and religious fraud. Note that when sinful people GENUINELY repent of their sins, nobody has to tell them how important it is to repent and confess those truly-forgiven sins publicly:

      And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed. (Acts 19:18-20, NKJV)

      For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:9-10, NKJV)

      The first quote above shows us the very effect that the Gospel will have on people when they are genuinely born again: They realize their are forgiven and cleansed, and they “cut the ties” with their past by openly admitting their past transgressions, and “burning the books” (or whatever else) that tied them to those past sins.

      The second quote above shows that even the apostle Paul, though ashamed of his murderous past, was NOT hiding it from others. He repeatedly mentions it during sermons in the Book of Acts and his epistles to the saints.

      And finally (for this point), note that Jesus said that a “tree” is known by its “fruit” (see Matthew chapter 7 in its entirety). Thus, if Copeland had truly repented of being a “bad tree” bearing the “bad fruit” of fraud, heresy, and outright lies…then he would BY NECESSITY have become a GOOD TREE afterwards, and would have CHANGED his behavior to model “GOOD FRUIT” before the public.

      There is absolutely NO evidence that Copeland has done any of that, and plenty of evidence that he is persisting in these same sins.

      THUS, in short…if Copeland had truly repented, SOMEBODY would know about it by now. BOTH his confession and deeds (i.e. fruit) would need to bear witness that the “tree” had changed into something good.

      Now to my second reply…

    • Picking up where I just left off in my response to our Friend in Rochester…

      Your Second Point:

      You could have gotten out there and preached against the Charismatic movement and what you feel is it’s abuses and the “whole” of it’s preachers if you feel that is what is right before God. But to publicly come against one man that you were with for 17 years does make it seem that you had an axe to grind and wanted to branch out on your own and make a name for yourself by using another man and his name and ministy as a steping stone. Perhaps by blowing things out of proportion and self righteously using the sins of this man and his family against him. Yes, he droped the ball many times like I am sure we all have.

      My Response:
      Well, according to your standard outlined above, Paul and John were both out of line (and thus, sinning) for the way they conducted their ministries. They BOTH named specific people BY NAME, and did not restrain themselves by ONLY addressing “whole” categories of bad behavior generically:

      …having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Timothy 1:19-20, NKJV)

      But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. (2 Timothy 2:16-18, NKJV)

      Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works. You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words. (2 Timothy 4:14-15, NKJV, emphasis mine)

      I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church. Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God. (3 John 1:9-11, NKJV, emphasis mine)

      I would like you to note that in the last two citations above that NOT ONLY did these two apostles “name names”…but the people THAT they named had wronged them PERSONALLY as well. Thus, if what I am doing is wrong…so is what these two apostles did.

      Sis, your position on this is founded in emotional sentiment, and NOT biblical reasoning, because your point is patently unscriptural.

      Your assertion about a “stepping stone” in ministry is similarly baseless, because by this standard of yours then nearly EVERY apostle and prophet in the Bible was trying to “make a name” for themselves when they confronted sinners BY NAME in their days. (Note: I will refrain from further comment on this baseless accusation of yours, as I already dealt with it in GREAT detail within this VERY article above. So I would suggest you re-read the above post in order to see that your false accusation had already been thoroughly refuted BEFORE you even wrote it.)

      Now to my third reply…

    • Picking up once again where I just left off in my second response to our Friend in Rochester…

      Your Third Point:

      But so many times, even though I have not been listening to Mr. Copeland for a long time, so many of his teachings along with the Word of God came up in my spirit as instruction as to how to handle this battle! Many of Mr. Copeland’s teachings rose up inside of me and got me through. Things are better now but I am not “taking my foot off of the head of the serpent”-yet another teaching of Copeland. Nothing that you ever said came up in my spirit and helped me be strong in the Lord and the power of His might. But the teachings of the one you have come against did!!!

      My Response:
      I never said that 100% of what Copeland teaches is error. Some of it is actually biblical, and beneficial. The reason for this is partially because he studied OTHER ministers, and replicated their teaching (e.g. Kenneth E. Hagin, & etc.).

      Furthermore, I have likewise remembered things that I once heard from Copeland, which proved to be helpful in various situations. However, is it “Copeland” that the Holy Spirit was bringing to our remembrances, of God’s Word as appropriate to our situations? I think the latter, because the Holy Spirit is sent to glorify Jesus and NOT wolves:

      He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. (John 16:14-15, NKJV, emphasis mine)

      Now, WHY did the Holy Spirit NOT bring something that I have taught to your remembrance? Simple: You have NOT read or listened to anything that I have taught that was relevant to that particular situation. Let me explain…

      For example: I have taught on the subject of divine healing from the Scriptures in times past, especially in public meetings (in a more balanced way than the Copelands do, by the way). However, there is nothing on my website that teaches on that topic at the moment. This is because I have felt compelled of the Lord to address other issues instead (and F. F. Bothsworth’s book Christ the Healer does a fine job on the subject already, so I merely recommend those who need teaching on this to pick up a copy if you need teaching on this subject).

      Consequently: If the “physical” situation that you mentioned above was concerning sickness, then there would be NOTHING of my teaching that the Holy Spirit COULD bring to your remembrance…because you have NOT heard me teach on that topic!

      Thus, this point of yours is completely “irrelevant” to the point you allege to make. It bears no reflection on the QUALITY of what I have taught on our websites in comparison with Copeland’s material, but ONLY the subjects addressed. Thus, this assertion of yours is called a “Fallacy of Irrelevant Thesis” (called a “red herring” as you can see HERE). You proved a point (e.g. that I have not taught on the subject of healing on my websites)…but you have NOT proved the point that you professed to make (i.e. that my teaching is in any way inferior to Copeland’s).

      Now to my fourth reply…

    • Picking up where I just left off in my third response to our Friend in Rochester, let’s finish with my fourth reply…

      The Remainder of your Points:

      To cut this already-lengthy set of replies short, let me just summarize a single response to address your remaining questions/points. (This is also suitable because I have already soundly addressed your main conjecture anyway.)

      I would suggest that prayerfully consider the points made within my replies above, and realize that your reasoning is based upon emotional sentiment, and NOT upon the Scriptures or sound logical thinking. God created your MIND with which you are to think logically, as He does, in accordance with Scripture. He gave you your emotions, however, merely to FEEL…they are not designed for “thinking.” If you continue to try and “think” these issues through by your “feeling” emotions, you will continue to make wrong decisions about your faith and life 99.9% of the time.

      Please also keep in mind: The Copelands run a cult, and thus, they tend to use all the tricks that any cult does in order to numb the minds of their followers. Here is Peter’s discourse about such wolfish methods of mind control and deception:

      But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [Rich Note: compare this statement with Titus 1:16, “They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.” Thus, “denial” can be by actions alone, and is not restricted to verbal expressions of denying Christ.]

      And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you…

      Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet….

      For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (Excerpts 2 Peter chapter 2, KJV, emphasis mine)

      I would like you to take note of all the bolded points within the passages above, and to soberly consider how befuddled your own thinking is in these matters. Your reasoning is unsound AND unbiblical; and thus, you really need to take an inventory of yourself in these matters if you want to ever be sound in the faith of Jesus Christ.

      Lastly, notice the point within the citation above, “by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.” The Name of Jesus is being BLASPHEMED in the public because of the Copelands and their kind. Their “ways” bring reproach to the Body of Christ, and steer others away from the Christian faith, as people find themselves questioning the intelligence and sanity of those who would listen to…much less, financially support…such idiotic “ministers.”

      And do you doubt that statement above? Then take the time to watch THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO in full, which includes clips of the Copelands and Creflo Dollar. While you watch it, please note several things:

      (1) How the secular TV guys are able to easily mock these wolfish preachers, because their teaching and behavior is so patently absurd;

      (2) How by the wolfish preachers are making a mockery of Christianity by their greed and folly;

      (3) How the person who posted this video has been “Muslim since 2003.” Why did they convert to Islam and NOT Christianity? Most likely, this video they posted reveals how utterly silly they consider “the Way of Truth” because of such heretics and their wolfish ways.

      In short, this video makes a mockery of the wolfish preachers, who are themselves making a mockery of God and Christianity.

      After watching that video, please consider the fact that 98% (or more) of sinners have more “discernment” to see the obvious hypocrisy and self-serving agendas of the Copelands…including their lavish lifestyles funded by gullible donors. Then ask yourself how could it be that THEY have a more clear-thinking and biblical perspective of this cult than you do.

      Despite the serious tone of this reply, please do not consider me to be hostile toward you. I am just quite righteously indignant that you not only continue to “drink the Kool-aid” of such obvious wolves…but that you also were intoxicated enough thereby to make ridiculous and baseless accusations toward me in return.

      Thus, my replies are rather blunt because I hope they will awaken you from the cult’s influence, and provoke you run toward God and His Word as fast as you can, until you FULLYy sober up from their intoxicating poison:

      Wisdom calls aloud outside; She raises her voice in the open squares. She cries out in the chief concourses, at the openings of the gates in the city she speaks her words: “ How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge. Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you. (Proverbs 1:20-23, NKJV)

      Please turn your ear to listen to Wisdom. She is calling you from MANY places to listen to her rebuke.

      Lastly, the only edits I made to your post above were spelling corrections, for the benefit of our automatic language translator. If I do not do that on ALL of the comments on this website, then the translator cannot possible properly translate the words of the writer for the benefit of our international audience. (And yes, I spell-check my own replies too.)

      Always in Jesus,


  27. Rich,

    I glanced over some of what you replied to me, not much of it because I just do not want to get dragged into it all again. I have chosen what I feel is healthy for me. No man knows all the answers and according to his prejudices he filters the words he reads from the bible. Yes, via the Holy Spirit also, but sometimes every human being can be a bit dense like I am sure you feel I am being now. I am not a listener of Dan Stratton. But you have come against that guy too and I see that you have written a book together with him in the past called “Divine Provision”. I don’t know you or any of the other men to form any personal opinions. But you sure seemed to be close to people you now distance yourself from. I will seek the Lord with my heart, do the best I can, listen to what good comes from a preacher and discard what does not line up with what I see is in the Word. That is healthy and sane! Besides you, the most by the book preachers seem to be Kirk Cameron and his friend. I think I once saw that you even found some fault in them. Listening to ones who act like most everyone is wrong except for them is not healthy and like a cult in some way also, and I liken it to a character who played a preacher on a soap opera that I used to see in re-runs. The character was the Reverend Trask from the series Dark Shadows! I have no ill feelings against you. Praise God follow your heart and the Word and what you feel is the Lord’s leading. I will do the same.

    Thank you.

    Rich Note and Final Notice: I have written my final reply to you below, Kathy in Rochester. As it states toward the end (and explains prior to that), you are hereby banned from further comments on this website until you meet the conditions set forth in my reply. Given that you only “glanced over some” of what I tried to explain to you before, I cannot but help to conclude that you are determined to wallow in your self-deception, and are refusing ANY and ALL biblical and logical arguments that blatantly refute your errors, as I have tried to awaken you up to your dire state. Thus, you are in denial…and are WASTING my time. So you are now banned from further commentary unless something significantly changes on your part.

    • You know, your points about “former association” are interesting ones, indeed…

      Consider for a moment how the many friends of Bernie Madoff were shocked to discover that the man they trusted was actually running a Ponzi Scheme, and had defrauded them of their money. Even his own family were caught off guard, not realizing that their opulent lifestyle was being funded by deceptive frauds. Here is one example:

      Lawrence Velvel, “69, dean of the Massachusetts School of Law, said he and a friend may have lost millions of dollars between them (AP). “This is a major disaster for a lot of people,” Velvel said in a telephone interview from his Andover, Mass., office. “You work all your life, you finally manage to save up something, and somebody who’s entrusted with it, it turns out suddenly he’s a crook. Lots of people are getting fully or partially wiped out.” Velvel said he wants to know where government regulators, as well as accountants and others at Madoff’s company, were when the money was being lost.”

      Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/12/bernie-madoff-hosed-client-list#ixzz1Y3QNznZ2

      The dean of a law school was taken in by a con man? I guess that goes to show you that even intelligent and highly-educated people can be misled by skilled frauds. So I guess it is not too bad or shocking a thing that it required me getting close enough to Kenneth Copeland for me to realize that all the “rhetoric” about his “integrity” were complete lies. In fact, I found out that he is a religious “Bernie Madoff.”

      Consider the story of the church members who once attended Fishers of Men Worship Center in Houston Texas. How shocked they must have been when, unbeknownst to them, it turned out that two of their beloved pastors (plural) and a deacon were running FEMA and student loan fraud schemes. I am pretty sure that those people were dumfounded by the fact that what was PREACHED from the pulpit did not match what was LIVED by these ungodly men behind the scenes.

      So imagine my own shock when I discovered that Kenneth Copeland was running a “humanitarian aid fraud” with his multimillion dollar unfulfilled promises.

      Thus, you can probably imagine my SHOCK and HORROR when I discovered that Dan Stratton, friend of Kenneth Copeland, was an admitted member of a satanic cult…EVEN though he claims to be a Christian pastor. Yes, I wrote a book FOR the guy (we did almost all the work)…but that was because I was foolish enough to TRUST Kenneth Copeland’s judgment, and did not vet Stratton thoroughly. However, once I awoke to the man’s evil affiliations and secret agendas, I was smart enough to get away from him.

      And yes…I also distanced myself from Kenneth Copeland too, once I woke up about him. Why would I do that, you ask? Well, here is one good passage from the New Testament that does a good job of explaining my reasoning:

      I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13, NKJV)

      In summary: You seem to think that by my distancing myself from an admitted member of a satanic cult (Dan Stratton) and his religious Ponzi scheme buddy (Kenneth Copeland), that such a decision on MY part says something bad about MY character instead of theirs. Does this REALLY seem biblical to you? Does this really seem logical at all?

      Let it be known: I refuse to associate with people of UNGODLY character, regardless of who they might be. Period.

      Also, I am done responding to your posts, Kathy in Rochester. As long as you insist on “drinking the Kool-Aid” of such ungodly people, thinking you can somehow “reject” the poison you are drinking as you do… then you are wasting my time. You think that you can listen to KNOWN heretics and wolves in sheep’s clothing and somehow “discard what does not line up with what” you see in the Word. But…that is NOT a biblical approach in and of itself, and thus, you have just demonstrated that you are NOT capable of properly discerning ANYTHING in regard to what is scriptural and what is not:

      And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
      For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. (2 John, verses 5-11, NKJV)

      I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church.
      Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God. (3 John, verses 9-11)

      So God says to stay away from those who OBVIOUSLY practice evil, but you want to apply a different standard to your own spiritual life that what the Word of God says. And that makes you qualified to judge what is biblical and what should be rejected? I hope you can see the self-contradiction here, Kathy. You have just proven that you are swallowing the poison WITH the Kool-Aid… and don’t even seem to know it.

      Since you keep coming back to my website with unbiblical arguments, trying to “justify” listening to Copeland and arguing with me about my biblical positions in confronting his sins and heresies, then I can only conclude that your REAL agenda is NOT about me…or Copeland. Your real agenda seems to be to try and justify your own “itching ears” and propensity toward DESIRING the Kool-Aid he teaches, regardless of its poisonous content:

      But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. (James 1:14-15, NKJV)

      For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. (2 Timothy 4:3-4, NKJV)

      But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Timothy 3:1-7, NKJV)

      Thus, in closing: Unless you demonstrate a true love of TRUTH instead of lies; a desire to learn something BIBLICAL instead of justifying your ungodly desires; and, in short, show yourself to be GOOD GROUND for me to sow the Word of God intoyou are hereby banned adding ANY further comments to this website. I poor my heart out to you in these replies…and as Paul said about others of your mindset, “They will not endure sound doctrine” but will instead “be turned aside to fables.” So I will not waste my time replying to you again unless I see a significant change in your behavior.

      (By the way, you are the first person that I EVER felt it was necessary to publicly ban from RichVermillion.com, since this website was launched in 2007.)

      Always in Jesus,


  28. Brother Rich,

    I’ve found throughout my walk in Christianity that we have to believe in an “absolute”. The Word of God “is that” absolute.

    Look at the testimony of our beloved Brother Apostle Paul –

    2 Corinthians 11

    Are they servants of Christ? I know I sound like a madman, but I have served him far more!

    I have worked harder, been put in prison more often

    been whipped times without number

    faced death again and again.

    Five different times the Jewish leaders gave me thirty-nine lashes.

    Three times I was beaten with rods.

    Once I was stoned.

    Three times I was shipwrecked.

    Once I spent a whole night and a day adrift at sea.

    I have traveled on many long journeys.

    I have faced danger from rivers and from robbers.

    I have faced danger from my own people, the Jews, as well as from the Gentiles.

    I have faced danger in the cities, in the deserts, and on the seas.

    I have faced danger from men who claim to be believers but are not.

    I have worked hard and long, enduring many sleepless nights.

    I have been hungry and thirsty and have often gone without food.

    I have shivered in the cold, without enough clothing to keep me warm.

    Then, besides all this, I have the daily burden of my concern for all the churches.

    Again in 1 Corinthians 4 –

    Even now we go hungry and thirsty

    we don’t have enough clothes to keep warm.

    We are often beaten and have no home.

    We work wearily with our own hands to earn our living.

    We bless those who curse us.

    We are patient with those who abuse us.

    We appeal gently when evil things are said about us.

    We are treated like the world’s garbage, like everybody’s trash—right up to the present moment.

    Don’t you think Apostle Paul could of avoided most of these trials with just a “tiny” bit of compromise? Preach what people want to hear instead of the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD? Yes, I believed he could of avoided much yet because he was a “Slave”, a “Bond Servant”, a “Prisoner” of the Lord Jesus Christ he couldn’t do anything else but the Will of God to ensure we have the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD.

    So begs the question – How can the prosperity doctrine be the will of God when the “Will of God”, (His Word) says –

    Hebrews 13:5 – Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have…

    Philippians 4:11-12 – Not that I was ever in need, for I have learned how to be content with whatever I have. I know how to live on almost nothing or with everything. I have learned the secret of living in every situation, whether it is with a full stomach or empty, with plenty or little…

    1 Timothy 6:6-8 – Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.

    While Jesus was in the Temple, he watched the rich people dropping their gifts in the collection box. Then a poor widow came by and dropped in two small coins. “I tell you the truth,” Jesus said, “this poor widow has given more than all the rest of them”.

    Luke 12:15 – Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”

    Luke 16:13-14 – “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” The Pharisees, who dearly loved their money, heard all this and scoffed at him.

    Colossians 3:1-2 – Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. “Set your mind” on the things above, not on the things that are on earth…..

    When Satan tempted Eve in the Garden and told her she would know good and evil, did he lie to her? He told her the truth, that her eyes would be opened. But she lusted for more than the (Word of God), the Word of God said don’t touch it!

    Today, there are many in the world telling us how to get rich by following certain steps and reading books and doing what those who have become wealthy do, systems, they work! Yet the Word of God says “Be content with what you have”…It’s the same deception that was in the garden, tempting a brother or sister to go beyond what is written….

    Set our minds on things above not on the things of the earth…

    (Where is our heart? Where is our focus? Where is our treasure? What do we dwell on all day? What is our admiration? What is our passion? Are we driven by the things of God? or our we driven by the things of the world? Where is our mind?)

    Thank You For Making A Stand!
    Brother Brian
    p.s. former prosperity doctrine follower

    • Good preaching, Brother Brian. I think one verse that you cited sums it all up nicely, which also happens to be one of our favorites:

      1 Timothy 6:6-8 – Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.

      Godliness is a term that is given lip-service in “prosperity” circles, but never lived. They live for carnality and worldly things, just as you pointed out. One of the few passages that you did not cite (chuckle), I will now quote here for extra emphasis to this point:

      1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

      Those who love the world and the things in the world, are enemies of God.
      This highlights Jesus’ point very nicely:

      Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Mammon.”
      14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
      (See also Matthew chapter 6)

      Notice that the MOST RELIGIOUS people of Jesus’ time upon the earth were the Pharisees…yet they served God only outwardly, for their hearts were covetous. They served Mammon–the pagan god of material wealth–and not the God that they professed to serve.

      So I could not care less what these “prosperity” hypocrites say about their “faith” or what “god” they serve: Their actions, in the light of Scripture, speaks FAR LOUDER than their rhetoric:

      Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

      Again, that is a good word you preached there, Brother Brian–very well said, indeed. Thanks for stopping by to have a chat with me. 🙂

      Always in Jesus,


  29. Shalom Brother Rich:
    Just wanted to let you that I just recently came across your web-site. I was very bless to see your comments on the many of wolves out there in country. I too was involved in this movement for almost 20 years. After many ups and downs of ministry, I knew something was not right in my life and heart. After spending some time with Yahweh, He so led me gently of my errors and the number 1 issues He had with me was this! I had deveolp an SELF-RIGHTEOUS ATTITUDE. Of course I repented from this horriable attitude and left the Minister for a season. I am so glad that the Spirit of Truth led me down this pathway of freedom and restoration of my soul and spirit. Now I can be entrusted with HIS GOSPEL. (I Thess. 2:4) Keep up the good work and the Ministry that Yahweh has entrusted to you.
    Blessing to you my Brother in the Faith

    • Blessings back to you, Avashalom! Thank you for the encouragement AND your wonderful testimony! By God’s grace, may you be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might; and may you reach multitudes with the true Gospel of the Lord Yeshua Ha Meshiach Ben David!

      Always in Jesus,


  30. Blessings In Jesus Name Rich, is there a guideline or the web ite to highlight all these minsters who take as a salary way more than that is really necessary? Like million dollar salaries is way plenty to live or way or really needed?

    • The best overall sources that I know of on the Internet (and none of them are complete, so you need to compare between them) are as follows (listed alphabetically):

      * ApologeticsIndex.org
      * ApostasyWatch.com
      * MinistryWatch.com (A watchdog group which focuses on the financial aspects of both good and bad “ministries”)

      There are others, of course, but these three above are the most comprehensive, and the first two link out to MANY others where you can get more detailed information about certain alleged ministers.

      Thanks for the question and for stopping by.

      Always in Jesus,


  31. Dear Rich and Dona,
    I have been reading your posts for some days now and can’t get my eyes off them. Like others, I was deep into WOF for so many years until God began to slowly take the shackles off me. This has led me to quitting my church a couple of months ago. I am recovering from great spiritual abuse and learning to depend on the word of God as well as taking time to dig out information I find very useful such as your site.
    I am so angry within for the way many churches in Africa in general are making their members to swallow so much rubbish in the name of God and no one holds them accountable. These men take advantage over a cultural behaviour of respect to the authority by members and exploit it to their advantage.
    The prosperity gospel continues to create so much havoc coupled with authoritarian pastors who simply manipulate for money and more money.
    I so much grieve in my spirit for countless “Christians” being fed on heresies rather than the true word of God.
    I wish such detailed and priceless information could be made available on African pastors (particularly in West Africa) where all the Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Wuanita Bynum, Billy or Franklin Graham, Bismark Tudor, Myles Monroe and so many others are idolized in Africa and come and dump their”gospel”, collect money and go back.
    Though this frightens me sometimes, I know that all the deception out there will usher in God’s perfect plan and revival.
    So thank you for doing what you are doing with so much dedication. Even though you primarily target America, I am convinced that God will also use it as an eye opener for many of His children in African and elsewhere to watch out for the wolves.
    God bless and protect you and your family

    • Thank you, Sewanan, for blessing me tonight with your comment. I am very pleased that we were a blessing to you too. 🙂

      I do have a heart for Africa, and other places of the world. So while I spend more time confronting American “wolves,” it is because the whole world is familiar with them. May God open the eyes of many MORE in West Africa, and around the world, and bring people OUT of the apostasy and into God’s eternal Truth. Amen.

      May God bless and protect you and your family too, my brother! Thank you for your prayers.

      Always in Jesus,


  32. Good job Rich. If even only a few people see the light of the truth, it will be worth the effort. I remember the day I realized that KC was lying. He was preaching at Mac Hammond’s church on the topic of Noah. He made a statement and then asked a question. The answer was in the next verse of the text. He told us all to look at him (which prevented us from reading ahead to get the answer). Then he answered the question wrong. I couldn’t believe it. That was the day I left the WOF camp – 2003. I had been troubled by numerous things before but this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Since then I have washed my soul of the greed of the prosperity message and cleansed my spirit of the other lies I was taught as a devouring student of the word in the 80’s and 90’s. I’m embarrassed to think I fell for his ministry of lies but I guess he’s fooled men better than me. He and others like him need to be exposed. May your pen continue to chip away at the false kingdom built under the name of KCM…

  33. Great to see someone has the guts to speak out against this blatant abuse of the gospel. However there is another area that you need to take a look at which may require a look at your own beliefs. And that is the teaching of the tithe.

    The definition of a Christian in my opinion is to follow the example of Jesus Christ yet I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where Jesus the Christ was a tithe payer. In fact the story of the rich young ruler could have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to solidify the tithing movement but He told the rich young ruler to sell all and give all to the poor. Why not pay his tithe as the new testament teaches.

    I have found so much that does not line up it is pathetic. Jesus also never received the tithe, why He was not a Levite He would have been killed if He did. Lastly, the story in Acts about the husband and wife that held back their proceeds from selling their land could have been another easy opportunity to establish the principle of tithing but it was about lying to the Holy Spirit. If we are going to clean the church up we need to clean all of it up. Then and only then is when we might once again see the signs and wonders that will draw the masses in not this blab it and grab it mess.


    • Thank you for the kind comment, L. Lowry. 🙂

      However, you wrote: “The definition of a Christian in my opinion is to follow the example of Jesus Christ yet I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where Jesus the Christ was a tithe payer.” Let me show you were that is in the Bible:

      ** Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

      Please note that paying tithes was included in the law:

      ** Deuteronomy 26:12 “When you have finished paying all the tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and to the widow, that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.”

      This is critical to understand: Under the Law of Moses, breach of that law understood to be sin. Yet, Jesus Christ NEVER sinned, or else He could NOT save us. Thus, for you to say that Jesus Christ was NOT a “tithe payer” is to assert (by logical necessity, although I doubt you understood what you were saying) that Jesus Christ sinned when He walked upon the earth:

      ** Deuteronomy 26:18 The Lord has today declared you to be His people, a treasured possession, as He promised you, and that you should keep all His commandments.

      ** Deuteronomy 27:1 Now Moses, with the elders of Israel, commanded the people, saying: “Keep all the commandments which I command you today.”

      ** Numbers 15:30 ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’”

      ** Malachi 3:8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say,‘In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings.

      ** 2 Corinthians 5:21 2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

      So in your zeal to oppose tithing, you have essentially accused Jesus Christ if being a “robber” Who “stole” the tithe that He Himself commanded (as God) for all Israelites to pay. In short, it is NOT my beliefs that “require a look” as you suggested, but your own. To deny that the Messiah paid tithes is to deny He is the Messiah at all. Hence, for you to claim to be a Christian and yet accuse Jesus Christ of being a sinner, is self-contradictory. If He sinned by breaking His Own commandments (because as God, He is the One Who wrote these very commandments) then we have no Savior, and we are all dead in sins and unable to be saved. Thus, your anti-tithe ‘zeal’ is NOT according to knowledge (Romans 10:2), and you seem to be unaware of the fact that you are thereby an enemy of the Cross of Christ:

      ** Philippians 3:17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

      Note: I do NOT agree with the way that “tithing” is taught in many circles, but neither can I agree with the anti-tithing teaching that you have seemed to swallow. As I noted above, it tends toward heresy as people go to great lengths in order to justify their false teaching against tithing. Moreover, I have yet to meet a rabid “anti-tither” who I was able to discern was purely motivated by a desire to know the TRUTH about the issue rather than merely to withhold their money (generally out of self-justified greed). Remember: Covetousness is idolatry, and thus, in your zeal to hold onto your money you may be proving yourself a pagan hypocrite and NOT a truth-seeking Christian:

      ** Ephesians 5: 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

      ** Colossians 3:5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

      I do not know you personally, of course, so I will NOT assume that you are in that class. However, again, I have yet to meet an anti-tithing zealot who demonstrated anything but sheer ignorance of Scripture, and they generally seemed to be simply “tight wads” with their money (greedy) and not genuinely concerned about knowing what the New Testament teaches on this subject. You might be an exception to the latter, but you have already demonstrated yourself to fit into the first part of that description.

      Now to your statement, ” Jesus also never received the tithe, why He was not a Levite He would have been killed if He did.” That is only true with regard to Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry during His incarnate lifetime. It does NOT apply to His pre-incarnate appearance as “Melchizedek” nor to His High Priest office today:

      ** Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

      4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 Now beyond all contradiction the lesser is blessed by the better. 8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. 9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak, 10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

      11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

      14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For He testifies:

      “You are a priest forever
      According to the order of Melchizedek.”

      18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

      Who could it be Who was “without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually” but the Son of God Himself, pre-incarnate? And Who is it about which we witness “that He lives” but Jesus Christ?

      ** 1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

      3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

      ** Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

      The Resurrection of Jesus Christ — i.e., that He lives! — is one of the key doctrines of Christianity, for apart from believing in His Resurrection one CANNOT be saved at all. Thus, this passage in Hebrews 7 above is clearly discussing the FACT that Jesus Christ in a pre-incarnate form (as Melchizedek) received tithes from Abraham BEFORE the Law was given, and that “after the order of Melchizedek” as High Priest in Heaven today, Jesus Christ RECEIVES tithes from those who present them with pure hearts.

      Thus, you are again incorrect. Jesus Christ in fact DID accept tithes in the OT from Abraham, and He does so today in Heaven as people with pure hearts present tithes to support Christian ministry today. He does not PHYSICALLY receive the tithes paid upon the earth (as human beings do that), but it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who accepts that sacrifice in Heaven if it is given with pure hearts and motives by those who present them prayerfully to Him:

      ** Leviticus 19:4 “Do not turn to idols or make for yourselves molten gods; I am the Lord your God. 5 ‘Now when you offer a sacrifice of peace offerings to the Lord, you shall offer it so that you may be accepted.'”

      ** Leviticus 22:20 Whatever has a defect, you shall not offer, for it shall not be acceptable on your behalf. 21 And whoever offers a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, to fulfill his vow, or a freewill offering from the cattle or the sheep, it must be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no defect in it.

      Again, Hebrew 7:8 says, “Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.” Mortal men have ALWAYS accepted the tithe/offerings of God’s people upon the earth (with the exception of Abraham with Melchizedek). Yet, the acceptance of the offering as SUITABLE to please God in any way was always dependent upon the heart and worship of the person offering sacrifice, because if the Lord did not accept their “gift” then it was a waste of their time and treasure to provide it (although the men may have still accepted it):

      ** Proverbs 21:3 To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.

      Thus, Jesus Christ — the Eternal Son of God, also called the Eternal Word of God made flesh among us (John chapter 1) — has ALWAYS been the One accepting tithes in Heaven. He has never changed either:

      ** Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

      Again, I cannot speak about whether or not you are pursuing an anti-tithe doctrine because you are a covetous idolater or not, but I have demonstrated in several ways within my reply that you are very wrong in your own beliefs about the matter, and that your are largely ignorant of Scripture. Without even intending to do so, you have actually blasphemed the Lord by accusing Him of not paying tithes upon the earth — and thereby, accusing Him of sinning against His Own Law, and not being the sinless Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world.

      In closing, I will post the TRUTH about tithing: Namely, those who push tithing as a “get-rich quick scheme” as the wolves in this post do, and those who are just as covetous as them by wanting to withhold ALL of their money from God and His Church, are both wrong. They are merely on opposite sides of the same “greed” issue: The wolves are wanting everyone’s tithe to support their luxurious living, and the anti-tithers want to hang onto their money for their own greedy use while ignoring the funding of the Gospel, benevolence to the poor, and other necessary ministries of the Church (all of which requires MONEY).

      To explain this point, however, I will simply copy/paste what I wrote to someone else online recently (on Facebook) explaining this matter, and then comment in closing to complete this reply:

      I will quickly add my comment, however, which is that God does NOT require a mere 10%. He requires 100% of us:

      ** Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

      ** 2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

      ** Colossians 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

      ** Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

      Our bodies, minds, lives — and yes, treasure and possessions — are to be 100% devoted to the Lord’s service. Hence, it is not merely a “tithe” that He expects of us. He died on the Cross to purchase ALL of our lives and existence.

      Thus, the debate about tithing that often circulates on the Internet is missing the point: The Lord did not “do away with the tithe” with the Cross as anti-tithing people propose, nor did He reaffirm the tithe being necessary for our material blessing and prosperity and pro-tithers (to especially include the extreme prosperity-gospel heretics) propose. No, Jesus died to obtain ALL of our lives, not just a percentage. Jesus is NOT on “commission.” He is our OWNER:

      ** Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying:

      “You are worthy to take the scroll,
      And to open its seals;
      For You were slain,
      And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
      Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
      10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
      And we shall reign on the earth.”

      ** 1 Corinthians 6:20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s…. 7:23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.

      We BELONG to God, because He purchased us in the Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, He owns ALL of us, and nothing less.

      Yes, all of creation is His, including the unsaved (e.g., Proverbs 16:4). However, His purchased possession — the Church! — is His precious possession. So here is the challenge for the professing Christian: If the Lord does own ALL of you, then you are falling short of His grace, and need to question if He owns ANY of you (Matthew 7:13-23; Titus 1:15-16; 2:11-15; 1 John chapter 3; etc.).

      In other words, God has NOT put Himself on “commission” in the New Testament, as if a mere 10% would be enough. No, He OWNS ALL OF US — to include ALL of our possessions — and He does so because He paid the price on the Cross in the Blood of Christ.

      Thus, 100% of our lives, treasure, time, talent, & etc., is to be at His disposal AT ALL TIMES. Anything LESS than that is a very weak form of “Christianity” at best, but as I warned above, perhaps evidence that a given person was never a Christian in the first place. (Again, please note Matthew 7:13-23; Titus 1:15-16; 2:11-15; 1 John chapter 3; etc.)

      So it is a big deal to pay tithes and offerings to fund a Gospel-preaching church or ministry, to support the poor in their time of need, or to pay a fellow Christian’s bills when they hit a tough time? If that pains a person to do, then that would seem to indicate that they serve “Mammon” just like the wolves that I described on this page, and NOT God:

      ** Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

      ** Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”

      I believe that a Christian should NOT be “forced” or “coerced” into giving ANYTHING (tithe, offering, etc.) to ANY church, person, or religious cause. If they do NOT have a leading of the Lord to serve Him with their treasure in a particular instance, then they should remain good stewards of God’s blessing upon them and hold onto their funds until such time that He leads them to contribute to others or to the work of God. We each belong to God (if we are born again) as His servants, and thus, we are each responsible to hear from Him about what to do with ALL of our lives — money and time, included.

      However, anybody FIGHTING the idea of tithing is just as wrong, and just as greedy, as the people who try to extort tithes/offerings out of people. Hence, I highly suggest that you judge your own heart. Why are you pursuing this? Is this a reaction to what the wolves have done, and perhaps you have been burned in the past? If so, then you are following a path of OVERREACTION as you practice “reverse greed” in holding onto your possessions too tightly. Regardless, your theology is VERY bad, your beliefs about this matter VERY unscriptural, and you need to re-examine your own life and motives AND doctrine, instead of trying to propagate them elsewhere. I know that perhaps you MEANT well, but you are spreading bad doctrine (and probably for the wrong reasons), and thus, you need to stop that, lest you find yourself coming into judgement later for causing others to err:

      ** 1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

      ** Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

      ** Mark 9:42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.”

      I see that you posted a second comment in addition to this first one, but since you did not include any sound theology in that one either I will refrain from approving it. I have already refuted its content within this reply, so it would be redundant to comment upon that one too.

      I hope you understand the love in which I have just expressed to you in this reply (James 5:29-20). Nevertheless, let me note that I will not debate on this subject. I have already demonstrated that the very assumptions of the anti-tithing beliefs are incorrect, and even blasphemous. There is no way to “salvage” that doctrine because it is out of harmony with too much of the Bible. Thus, any effort to “save face” will be self-contradictory and unscriptural by logical necessity, and I will not take the time to approve or reply further. (I have to say this because some people, no matter how many ways I prove them wrong from the Bible, will argue their false doctrines still as they pursue fallacies into infinity.)

      Thank you again for your kind comments, and I hope my corrective ones here prove profitable to you in the long term.

      Always in Jesus,


      • L. Lowry,

        I stated clearly that I was not going to debate, and that your position is “unsalvageable.” The fact that it violates several clear portions of Scripture is proof that your belief system lacks both internal and external integrity, which is a very critical element for sound theology.

        Thus, I would highly suggest that you read my article Four Characteristics of Sound Doctrine in order to familiarize yourself with just a few of the characteristics that are necessary to have truly biblical doctrine, which your doctrine is clearly lacking. If your doctrine is in clear contradiction to other aspects of Christian theology (and it is), then despite your best intentions it CANNOT be correct because God does not self-contradict Himself:

        ** 2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. 14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

        Your doctrine contradicts other portions of Scripture, and thus, CANNOT possibly be true and accurate. Hence, it must be rejected by anyone seeking to “rightly divide the Word of Truth.”

        I am sorry you wasted your time writing such a long comment in a futile effort to “salvage” your position, but I did warn you that I would not allow you to take over this page with a debate on this topic. Thank you for understanding.

        Always in Jesus,


      • L. Lowry,

        I am very sorry that you wasted your time once again posting comments to me, as I did NOT read either of them past the first sentence. Anytime a person begins their rants with unwarranted “ad hominem” fallacies, I already know there is nothing worth reading past that point. Essentially, people who resort to school-yard taunts to “support” their position are proving themselves unable to formulate sound arguments with rational thinking. Such people as you resort to juvenile tactics in hope they can “win” their argument, which is not only rather absurd but quite foolish and immature. While such irrational tactics might work well in an elementary school play yard among children, it will not get you very far on my website (or in life).

        However, since you are continuing to rant with your self-contradictory tripe, I have had to categorize your last two unread comments as “SPAM” in order to send your future posts to where they rightfully belong more quickly. Of course, since my website participates within the Askimet network, that may mean that comments you post elsewhere on the Internet may be flagged as SPAM commentary from time to time too. Nevertheless, any negative consequences of your irrational and greed-based diatribes are the reward for your own bad behavior and idolatry (i.e., because of your obvious covetousness; see Eph. 5:5 and Col. 3:5).

        I hope you make it to Heaven. I cannot fathom how such a Mammon-serving person as yourself will get there, but perhaps you will wake up and repent of your idolatry and put your faith in Jesus Christ. I will pray that will be the case.

        Always in Jesus,


  34. Hi Rich

    I have “lurked” on your site for a while now having been woken up by disceners who are blasting their trumpets alerting of wolves in the field. For that I wish to thank you for blowing yours!

    I spend a lot of time studying and warning others about the wolves and like you it came about not out of anger but out of love for someone. KC in your case, the local people in Vanuatu in my case.

    It is bad enough when we see sinners and saints lured by the “world” but my heart cries when I see sinners and saints lured away from God by people who are supposedly righteous.

    There are a few things that bug me a lot. One is the abuse of the word “Brother,” (as stated by Wolf Jr). I therefore enjoyed a comment above that said that said that they dont call brother until they know who their father is.

    The other one where if a “Brother” is rebuked then they always resort back to “Do not judge lest you be judged yourselves.” That, they believe, makes them unchallengable, which is one sign of cultic avtivity.

    Here is one wolf sign you did not see
    “You had better repentant (sic) before God and before Brother Copeland.” Perhaps his bad grammar or perhaps not. If I am repentant I am repent (turn away from) of my sins before God, and God alone. Wolf Jnr’s allegiance reinforces numerous WoF teachers sayings that elevate themselves to divine ranks.

    • Those are some interesting observations, Dan. Thank you for both “lurking” and taking the initiative to add substantive commentary to this thread.

      You noted that “numerous WoF teachers…elevate themselves to divine ranks.” That is true, and it is also a Masonic belief system behind that tendency. While this fact alone is not enough to know for sure that a given WoF teacher is a Freemason, it does indicate that they have been exposed to Masonic influences (which indicates further investigation of them is warranted). Starting with the 7th Degree of “Royal Arch Mason,” Freemasons begin to “deify” themselves by applying Jesus’ “I AM” statements to themselves, while at the same time beginning to deny the genuine and exclusive Deity of Christ. So your statement to this effect is touching on a variety of issues beyond the obvious, as you have hit on one sign that a given “teacher” has been influenced by Masonic heresies.

      Thank you again for your insightful contributions to this thread. 🙂

      Always in Jesus,


  35. I came across KCM on TBN. I confess, I learned a lot or I thought I did. I was a encouraged and
    I became a partner – only for about 1 year. I wish I had discovered your blog earlier.

    Early 2013, I stopped all monies going to them. However they kept sending me letters and the
    magazine. Fast forward April 2014 – I discovered the Video BOMBSHELL that Copeland was becoming Vatican-friendly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kgxEvIDoGs

    For me this was the limit. I mean the WOLF had bared its FANGS! I could see it now and it confirmed what I was suspecting. I called them to completely stop sending me their rubbish and remove my name from their database as well as email.

    Hitherto, I had tried several times to unsubscribe from their email to no avail.

    Of course, following the video Copeland met the Pope around June 24th 2014,
    see here >> http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=22896

    During that time, however I became concerned about the following:

    1.Each time the main story in the magazine at the end calls for membership of KCM i.e. the
    testimony was because these people were member of KCM? Really? More like a cult!
    As a result I cannot read those mags anymore nor can I give them away so they went up for burning.

    2. Pictures of the Copelands everywhere. Is it Jesus we are worshiping or the Copelands
    For me seeing pictures of these people rings ALARM bells.

    3. Partnership tapes and books (didn’t read it all nor did I listened to the tapes) however
    I remember coming across some dubious claim that once you enter partnership you cannot break off. Wow…ALARM Bells all the way! Very manipulative.

    4. Claim that when the going gets tough that when you should give all. Collecting money through credit cards is also an issue for me. People should give out of what they have not borrow to give.

    5… and many other shady, dodgy, very sly doctrines I cannot elaborate here.

    For me partnering with one world religion that the Pope is spearheading says it all. If the KCM partners do not see this, it shows they are blind indeed.

    God have mercy on us all. Once I was blind but now I can see, blessed be the NAME of JESUS!!!

    Thanks for your article on “Are you a mature christian”. I have been blessed tremendously.

    God bless you brother!

    • Thank you for the encouragement and for sharing your personal testimony, Benny. Thank you also for providing links regarding the Pope/Vatican connection that Copeland has pursued in this latest example of anti-Christ behavior. I suspect that will be Copeland’s undoing, however, now that so MANY now-ex “partners” like yourself have abandoned him for his heresy in this matter.

      Meanwhile, the death of Anthony Palmer also leaves Copeland’s new “unity relationship” with the Pope in question. In the end, I think Copeland is left with NO GAIN, but only severe loss on every front (e.g., financial, influence, reputation, etc.). This will likely hasten the end of KCM, as their decline has already been in process for a few years now and this will only accelerate things even more (see http://kennethcopelandblog.com/2011/06/09/copelands-financial-titanic-is-sinking-faster/ for more on that).

      I agree with you on ALL of the points you have mentioned above about their shady behaviors, cult-like characteristics, greed, & etc. Frankly, I am sorry that it took something so drastic as Copeland trying to become a Roman Catholic to wake up so many people. Nevertheless, I am also THRILLED that Copeland was THAT stupid to attempt this “unity” with the Roman Catholic Church and its Jesuit Pope. His actions have enabled MANY people to see through their lies — FINALLY! — and that is a good thing, indeed. 🙂

      Thank you again for your comment.


      • Hello Rich . I have been reading your blog for two days now and am completely blown away!
        I just want to start off with a thank you and your wife for putting this together ( complete understatement ).
        2) I believe in my spirit that what you have been bringing to light is true about KCM organization Kenneth Copeland.
        3) This has been a humbling experience for myself because if a man stating to be a born again believer of JESUS CHRIST prophet of The Most High GOD can steal millions or perhaps a better word fleece millions for his own gain his own fleshy desires in this day and age well I am just completely devastated for all the BODY OF CHRIST.
        The damage to the people who prayed to GOD while watching his program.
        What happens to them? Are they born again ? Will JESUS recognize them?
        Oh my I have prayed for 2 days. I will pray for the rest of my life against false prophets false ministers wolves in sheep’s clothing This is so heart wrenching and actually terrifying. To be so easily misled My prayers to You all in Christ Jesus Brethren.

      • Howdy, Anna. 🙂

        Donna and I are thrilled that our websites have blessed you as they seem to have done. Thank you for sharing that with us.

        As to your question about those who have followed the Copelands, and whether they are saved, the only answer that I can give you is, “It depends.” Salvation is an individual experience as one comes to the Lord Jesus Christ in genuine repentance and faith in the finished word of the Cross (e.g., see Acts 26:19-20). My wife and I were born again before we came across the Copelands, so we did not somehow become “un-born again” when we began to watch the TV program. We were simply deceived by the false doctrine (which false teaching was far less obvious back then).

        On the other hand, many who claim to have been “saved” under the Copelands’ false “ministry” are likely unsaved. How can they hear a false “gospel” about finances, or “blessing,” or whatever they sold to the TV or convention audience, and then accept this FALSE “Jesus” and be born again? If the Copelands preach on anything OTHER than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ (which they never preach as the apostles did in Acts), and then do an alleged “altar call,” to what are the people responding? To the idea of getting wealthy, or their bills paid? To the idea of a “bless you no matter what you do” false “god” so that they can have their “best life now,” etc? If that is to what they are responding, then they are false converts. They are not fleeing the wrath to come, nor truly repenting of their sins (since the Copelands rarely even mention the word “sin,” much less define it biblically), or putting their faith in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Hence, under such conditions, the followers are nothing more than pagan idolaters adding a fictitious “god” of the Copelands’ making to their existing list of idols (e.g., wealth, fame, popularity, etc.).

        Nevertheless, it is certainly possible that some people were already convicted of their sins because they heard the true Gospel elsewhere, and they simply responded to the Copelands’ bogus “altar call” as an act of faith to give their lives to Christ. So is it possible that SOME of those answering the pitiful “altar calls” of the Copelands were born again? Sure, it is. However, knowledge of the Scriptures indicates that the vast majority of those who respond at these conventions or to the weak “prayer” at the end of a television program, are NOT saved. The wolves have had their feast, and have sold their audience on a “broad way” false gospel that is leading them to destruction. Hence, “MANY” (according to Jesus) will discover too late that they were not saved at all:

        ** Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are MANY who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

        15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

        21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 MANY will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”

        The “MANY” of verse 13 is the very same “MANY” of verse 22. You will notice that sandwiched in between is a description of the self-serving “wolves” who sold them a false “gospel” in order to achieve their own ungodly agendas. Hence, “many” of those following the Copelands are NOT saved at all.

        This is not an absolute, however. I am quite sure that there is a “remnant” of people who, like ourselves, were perhaps born again before they came across the Copelands or sometime afterwards due to genuine faith in the Savior. Nevertheless, that number is likely dwindling fast as the Copeland family’s increasingly obvious heresy and bizarre false prophecies wakes up genuine Christians concerning the TRAP in which they have been caught, and the cry out to God to escape. So the stranger the Copelands become, the fewer genuine Christians will be following them, and that is a good thing, indeed.

        For more teaching on such subjects, please peruse this website. You can also see my FREE audio series The Fundamentals of the REAL Gospel. You can listen to the sessions online using the embedded media player, or download the series in a few formats, including MP3. The instructions are on that page.

        Thank you for your note. I hope my reply proves helpful to you. God bless you and your family. 🙂

        Always in Jesus,


      • Hello again Rich and Donna .Rich I have listened to your mp3 series on The Real Gospel . Thank you . I have definately been blessed by the series of teaching and preaching . My background was a Jew I was raised as one . I did not follow the teachings yet always believed in GOD. I went the way of the world …My life was a complete disaster useless foolish selfish so I was channel surfing unable to sleep like so many and there was Ken Copeland and I thought ooh he knows scripture he is teaching again back in the 1990’s . I became arrogant foolish believing II was born again saved yet deep down I knew something was wrong their lifestyle always bothered me his quoting Ken Haggin and Oral Roberts and look how they died and the Ministries bankrupt so when I stumbled across your website it was such a blessing eye opener . I am truly learning the Truth about GOD, JESUS CHRIST , The HOLY SPIRIT , and his WORD the bible . I recommend to all who read this blog to listen to the series and have sent people to this site . We need the truth about The GOD HEAD and The GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST . Thank you again Your Sister in the BODY of Christ

      • Thank you for the kind comments about our MP3 series, Sis. 🙂 I apologize that it took a few days to respond, however.

        We have a brother in Christ over in the Philippines (originally from the USA) who has listened to that same series over and over again. He lost count somewhere about 50 times listening to it, and is well over 100 times by now. He noted (as others have too) that the more he listened to it, the more things that the Lord brought out of it to impact his thinking. So I highly recommend listening to it at least a few times more. (And I will note that this brother has been just about begging us to do another series! Ha ha! I think he finally got tired of listening to it! 😉 )

        Oh, and here is the download page link for anyone reading this thread who is unaware of this FREE teaching series. It can be downloaded at this page, or listened to online using the embedded media player: https://archive.org/details/TheFundamentalsOfTheRealGospel

        Thank you again for your kind commentary and feedback, Sis. God bless you as you continue to study God’s Word.

        Always in Jesus,


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